• LUCZORAMA SHIPWRECK SCAVENGER HUNT GIVEAWAY. 4 Weeks of Fun • 1 Legendary Prize ((OcCre’s Fram Ship)) • Global Crew Welcome!
    **VIEW THREAD HERE**

fake frames and filler blocks

Joined
Oct 9, 2021
Messages
208
Points
88

took a good look at the model shipways kit of confederacy. They have a section of hull that is left unplanked to show a section of fake frames.. not to scale and doesnt seem to be matching what ive seen of the real ship.

My question is two fold..

1. Is it possible to create a section of fake ribbing like this to act as filler blocks?

2. With the amount of cheap and light wieght material sold in sheets, would it be doable to uses card board as filler blocks, or even layers of super thin plywood?
 
With the amount of cheap and light wieght material sold in sheets, would it be doable to uses card board as filler blocks, or even layers of super thin plywood?
I'm having a hard time picturing this. Is one of the below what you mean? A is as if a POB build and B, POF build.
Thanks

Allan
1744886048135.png
 
the fake framing in the kit is wrong as an American built ship all the frames would be sistered together and not the British style of bends and filler frames.

2. With the amount of cheap and light wieght material sold in sheets, would it be doable to uses card board as filler blocks, or even layers of super thin plywood?

i would think using cardboard would work. The idea of filler material between bulkheads is to add support and shape to the planking so it does not lay flat between the bulkheads. There is no need for strength. I have even seen builders use duct tape and tape up the hull then use expanding foam to fill in the space. i have used a high-density foam board. You do not have to fill the entire space from the inside profile piece. i have seen bulkhead hull where the builder used pieces of scrap wood and built a wall along to outside edge of the bulkheads leaving the center hollow.
 
my problem is that althought i can see a house in complete 3d in my head, every layer, from footings, foundation wall, floor joists,,, etc. I have a hard er time with a ship model. Its why i never noticed that damned race horse kit had a huge bulge on one side of one bulkhead until i had the first layer of planking in.

I was thinking/jocking on cardboard just for sheer cost. I know the super thin plywood isnt cheap anymore.. Have seen the foam in a can discussed mainly as a negative.
 
I would advise against using cardboard or plywood as a transverse hull filler material. The edges of both materials are not easily sanded and shaped, particularly the end grain of plywood and, in my opinion, the process involves a lot of needless work.

An inordinate amount of time and effort seems to be generated in recent times in efforts to overcome the inherent weaknesses of plank on bulkhead ("POB") and plank on frame ("POF") kit ship model construction. Here, again, the critical thoughts I once expressed concerning ship model kits which apparently resulted in my being banned from posting on that "other" ship modeling forum (which increasingly has become a "ship kit assembling forum" controlled by certain ship model kit manufacturers) come to mind. Just as IKEA's "knock down flat" furniture has come to dominate the low-end furniture market due to the economies it offers in terms of processed materials, CNC cutting, shipping expense, and warehousing space required, so also have "knock down flat" ship model kits and hence the near ubiquity of the laser-cut plywood bulkheads and frames for POB and POF (as distinct from "fully-framed") kit ship model hull construction. In both cases, the "bottom line" defines the design parameters.

The fabrication of a "closed hull" model ship (i.e., not depicting un-planked framing) is far more easily accomplished by carving a hull from solid wood or, far easier still, by stacking "lifts" (aka: the "bread and butter" or "sandwich" method.) Nor are many modelers and certainly no kit manufacturers constructing hulls the way small craft are actually built in real life, via the "mold and batten" method. It seems the interest in "packing" or "filling" POB and POF hull structures is only a return to "solid hull technology" via a tediously circuitous route that combines all the unique challenges of each alternate hull construction method into one, quite likely evidencing the accuracy of Roger Pellet's observation that, "Assembling ship model kits teaches one only to assemble ship model kits."

Filling the spaces between widely spaced bulkheads and frames and sanding the filler fair is only effective as a support for planking which must form a fair curve between the bulkheads as the modeler's sanding of the filler material is itself fair. "Catch-22" of filler pieces is that easily shaped filler material is also likely to lack the structural qualities that offer a suitable fastening surface, whether by adhesives or mechanical fasteners and many filler materials raise archival quality issues, as well.

I submit that where kit design fails to provide a sufficient structure for producing fair POB or POF hull, the better option, rather that some sort of solid filler material, is to loft and fabricate additional intermediate bulkheads and/or frames to define the shape. The narrow solid edge of a wooden bulkhead or frame is far easier to sand to a fair curve with a sprung batten with sandpaper glued to its face than to try to shape a much larger surface of material filling the entire space between adjacent bulkheads or frames.
 
Last edited:
my problem is that althought i can see a house in complete 3d in my head, every layer, from footings, foundation wall, floor joists,,, etc. I have a hard er time with a ship model. Its why i never noticed that damned race horse kit had a huge bulge on one side of one bulkhead until i had the first layer of planking in.

You can tell at a glance. If the body plan (stations) viewed from the bow or stern are not fair, you have a bulge or a dent there.
 
You can tell at a glance. If the body plan (stations) viewed from the bow or stern are not fair, you have a bulge or a dent there.
in my defense, that kit seems to be known for hull issues due to the bulkheads being odd. I have seen some builds that show huge DENTS due to the bulkhead not being full size, and others with the same bulge i had .. and its not the same bulk head, it varries. could be nomber 3, or number 8, or number 12. random draw from a computer controlled machine
 
in my defense, that kit seems to be known for hull issues due to the bulkheads being odd. I have seen some builds that show huge DENTS due to the bulkhead not being full size, and others with the same bulge i had .. and its not the same bulk head, it varries. could be nomber 3, or number 8, or number 12. random draw from a computer controlled machine

No defense required. Some kits and some kit manufacturers are famous for such errors. Model Shipways, however, is one of the more highly regarded manufacturers. That said, fairing must be ruthlessly accurate before attempting planking. A batten chalked with carpenter's chalk (usually colored blue or red) when offered up against the bulkheads or frames fore and aft and at all angles will quickly reveal high and low spots that are otherwise impossible to detect before planking. Once you know your "skeleton" is fair, you can start "skinning" it out.
 
the Confederacy would use all double frames like this
Thanks Dave!
I have this MS kit in my stash and will start on it one of these days, months or years. This is nice to know information! FWIW, I've been thinking about increasing the number of frames and also the vertical amount of those frames being exposed. Something about that tiny little window of only a 'hint' of some frames bothers me in a model of this size. The visual 'balance' is way off. The model needs to show more framing, in 'my' opinion! That being said... do you also have any insight as to the bolt pattern(s) that would have been used in the sistering of those frames? Scale bolts would likely be noticeable, at 1:64 scale, via the proper gaps between sistered frames. Those bolt details would be 'another' nice effect to bash into this model.
Tom...
 
Back
Top