Finishes

Chello

Chello

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I was just wondering if anyone already had some thoughts about what finishes they were considering and what people were planning to use for the hull planking in terms of treenails/bolts. I also understand that the original version had a “white” hull below the waterline and if anyone was considering painting the hull. I have experimented with some finishes such as varnish, wax and oil. The tung oil gives the nicest and warmest finish and I am looking at some colour nuances maybe by using different finishes but besides the dark whales I don’t intend to paint anything.

What are your thoughts?
 
I am planning to treat most part of the ship, and certainly the inner timbers and panels with Tung oil. I have never worked with it and I was wondering if tung oil treated wood was still responsive to glue, both wood glue and CA . I suppose to get the best effect I’d rather start with treating the inner hull planks but would hesitate if it affects the adhesive properties. Any ideas or opinions?
 
Chello said:
I am planning to treat most part of the ship, and certainly the inner timbers and panels with Tung oil. I have never worked with it and I was wondering if tung oil treated wood was still responsive to glue, both wood glue and CA . I suppose to get the best effect I’d rather start with treating the inner hull planks but would hesitate if it affects the adhesive properties. Any ideas or opinions?
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You cannot glue directly on any oil based finish.
 
I am not a huge fan of wipe on poly because it gives too much of a plastic look.

I sampled a bit of tung oil on my model (see my build log) and it gives a really warm finish. However, a single coat will not fill any cracks or imperfections in the wood and leaves a rough surface. I didn't realize this until just now, but apparently it can be applied in layers to smooth out the surface. From wikipedia:

Tung oil finishes that start with polymerized oils or tung oil preparations are best applied in the fat over lean principle: thinned pure oil is applied to deeply penetrate the surface, to fill pores. Straight oil is then applied moderately to adhere to the surface and provide a good base for the thick gloss layers. The polymerized oil is then applied thickly as a single layer, allowed to fully dry, is buffed smooth with very fine sandpaper, then 0000 steel wool. The surface is wiped clean with a moistened rag, then allowed to dry. A final coat is applied fairly thickly (the oil will smooth itself into a glass-like coating) and allowed to dry for two to three days.
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I would actually be surprised if weld bond wouldn't stick to well dried (polymerized) tung oil.
 
ot1138 said:
I would actually be surprised if weld bond wouldn't stick to well dried (polymerized) tung oil.
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It may be that some glues e.g. weldbond or epoxy would stick well to an oil finish but in that case the glue may no longer be the weakest link. The strength of the assemply would then be relying on the strength of the oil's bond to oil (in best case scenario, the strength of the oil's bond to wood).
eslabon-debil.jpg
 
I use Clou Schnellschleifgrund https://www.clou.de/index.php?id=189&item=7 which is a primer which closes the cells of the wood. It is used without any thinner and dries within minutes. To get a smooth surface whithout shining I sand the wood with 000 steel wool afterwards.

The surface is protected against dirt and accidential glue drops. Of course wood glue will not hold on the surface either. But you can use epoxy or scratch the surface away with a knife.

If you like, you can give the surface additional finish like Clou Ballenmattierung https://www.clou-shop.eu/clou-heimwerker/holzlacke/l2-clou-ballen-mattierung.html or any paint. But this is not necessary.

Cheers Alexander
 
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Have we tested these theories? I know that weldbond isn't very strong when glued to poly, but don't know about Tung Oil. After curing, it is technically no longer an oil, but a polymer chain. Some of these can be far stronger than wood.

and what people were planning to use for the hull planking in terms of treenails/bolts.
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I noticed yesterday that the Coureur monograph shows a nailing pattern for the hull planking.
 
I have no experience with simulating nails, so I decided to give it a little test. I drilled three sets of holes with a tiny hand drill and filled with Black Walnut, Red Cedar, and Dehlberger wood filler, then wiped with Tung oil.

They look pretty similar to me. Maybe a larger sample might be needed.

1609296692432.png
 
Tung oil penetrates the wood depending on how much oil is soaked up, how many coats of the oil or the species of wood.
So if you intend to glue anything to a tung oiled surface the best bet is to always use a mechanical fixture such as a wooden or wire dowel that has been roughened up and inserted into holes slightly tighter than the dowel or using epoxy if the hole is wider than the dowel.

As far as finish- I really like Tung oil on furniture as no other finish gives the warm lustre that tung oil gives. The negatives are that you need to re-coat every couple of years to maintain the same look, and not properly removing and buffing out excess oil can leave the surface quite tacky.
I would not use it on model ships due to personal preference- the oil gives a sheen that does not look natural on a craft that is weathered by the sea.
If I am not painting over the wood I will use very matt finish or just apply testor's Dullcote in many very thin layers- don't use thick layers or you will get a shine.
I found that this gives the authentic old school look that is more in line with the vintage model ships in Museums that do not pick up the shine from the lights.

BTW: sorry for not replying earlier I missed this topic completely.
 
ot1138 said:
I have no experience with simulating nails, so I decided to give it a little test. I drilled three sets of holes with a tiny hand drill and filled with Black Walnut, Red Cedar, and Dehlberger wood filler, then wiped with Tung oil.

They look pretty similar to me. Maybe a larger sample might be needed.

View attachment 202215
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I would not make a decision on only two holes - you can get a better feeling for differences in the color, when you make a sample with more planks and also joints
This sample I made once for my La Salamandre with brass and copper wire, but shows the principle what I mean. (different diameter and material)
Also @Jimsky (I think) made something similar a short time ago
IMG_4432.jpg
 
Yes, agreed. That looks nice!

Wouldn't consider it for the outer planking but I could see that looking wonderful on decks. A lot of work, for sure.
 
ot1138 said:
Yes, agreed. That looks nice!

Wouldn't consider it for the outer planking but I could see that looking wonderful on decks. A lot of work, for sure.
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you can use these "fake"-nails with wood filler, which I did also already several times, f.e. on the deck of the Bonhomme Richard.
I did not want to show the metal nails, it is necessary to make several planks parallel, so you can really see how the difference of the filler types are looking like....
 
A test with multiple planks. First column was drilled with a #70 bit and filled with Red Oak. Second column was drilled with #65. Third column was drilled with #65 but instead of filler, I left sawdust in the holes.

The first column is my personal preference. The holes look more to scale and quite a bit cleaner than the others.

1609697290315.png
 
ot1138 said:
A test with multiple planks. First column was drilled with a #70 bit and filled with Red Oak. Second column was drilled with #65. Third column was drilled with #65 but instead of filler, I left sawdust in the holes.

The first column is my personal preference. The holes look more to scale and quite a bit cleaner than the others.

View attachment 203216
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It is very hard to give ere some advise, due to the fact that the photo is missing some sharpness - but you see it best
 
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