FRIESLAND by Mamoli

WilliamM said:
I have one issue with this kit. The only reference to any line of battleship in any of the lists of them is to is one ship named WEST FRIESLAND, but there is no ship named FRIESLAND. Could they be the same? Does it matter? I would rather build ships of historic interest than to build generic ships. Does anyone have any ideas?

I finished a model of SAN FELIPE last year but there is no such ship listed in the Spanish archives. However, upon research, I found a ship with very similar lines and details named REAL FELIPE. I've decided to mount the model with the latter name.

Bill
Click to expand...
I finally found the answer! Yes, there was a ship-of-the-line named Friesland! It fought in the last two wars of the Anglo-Dutch Wars and was later captured by the French years later. It was renamed Frisland.

Bill
 
WilliamM said:
I have one issue with this kit. The only reference to any line of battleship in any of the lists of them is to is one ship named WEST FRIESLAND, but there is no ship named FRIESLAND. Could they be the same? Does it matter? I would rather build ships of historic interest than to build generic ships. Does anyone have any ideas?

I finished a model of SAN FELIPE last year but there is no such ship listed in the Spanish archives. However, upon research, I found a ship with very similar lines and details named REAL FELIPE. I've decided to mount the model with the latter name.

Bill
Click to expand...
Hi William and everyone else enquiring about the substance of this ship kit.

Here is my input using what reference books I have in my Library.

According to Heinrich Winters book
Der Hollandische Zweidecker von 1660/1670
(The Dutch Two decker of 1660/1670)

I have taken this translation from page 11.
"The history of the model" as follows...

About the reason for donating the model and its later fate
Nothing reliable could be determined, nor could it be determined which one
Ship of the Dutch fleet is supposed to be depicted.
The Orange coat of arms
Decorative mirror that bears the motto of the Order of the Garter does not give any appearance conclusion about it. The museum's files don't even reveal when the model ended up in the museum. They only contain one lot
younger newspaper article, according to which it belonged to the Prince of Orange around 1665 was given as a gift during his visit to the fleet in Texel.
This raises the question of whether there was a ship with the same coat of arms or whether the coat of arms is only intended as a form of attention associated with the donation has been applied carefully. It must also be taken into account that the guns of the model
Brandenburg eagle with Kurhut. But these pipes can should not have been added later, because it is inconceivable that the thick, blunt bronze bolts of the overlays. Just tap the pipes firmly into the pipes through the gates.
The carriage cheeks could have been driven in, as was actually the case.
So this must have happened at an earlier stage of construction, i.e.
before the decks above the guns were laid. It's interesting in this context also that the items stored in the Berlin Armory but only from the time of Brandenburg's colonial efforts (after 1670).
The guns don't carry an eagle and a Kurhut, but rather the scepter
appears in color on a blue background. This indicates that the donation took place at a time when Friedrich Wilhelm I, although not yet Elector, but as Elector Prince was the future heir to this dignity,
i.e. before 1648. The model would then have to be set about 30 years earlier.
the. The ships at that time generally had a lower and slanting forward gallion. The news leading to these considerations have given rise to, but are too uncertain to be able to use the previously estimated.
The date of creation could already be brought forward now"

I have also been researching Dutch Warships in the age of sail by James Bender as follows...

Where on page 265 the "Westfriesland" ship is mentioned. This Ship was first mentioned in 1666 so one can assume it was built probably earlier although as others have pointed out the Dutch weren't great for keeping historical archives bk then. However according to this book and its sources the "Westfriesland" had 5 refits of Armament over a period of 17yrs thus being the same ship since at least 1666(photo below from book).

I have also researched the book "A Distant Storm" The Four days battle of 1666 by Frank L. Fox as follows...

The ship itself was heavily involved in "The Four days battle" and the battle on the "St James's day fight" under the command of L.A.(N) Jan Cornelisz Meppel in the "3rd Squadron commanded by L.A.(A) Cornelis Tromp.
I have enclosed photos again from this book for your pleasure...

My suggestion/assumption is that this kit is nearly 100% based on the ship "Westfriesland" the 80 guns being refitted at the later date between 1674-1683 where as in 1666/7 she carried 66/78 guns probably the latter regards to the documentation in this book.

It's definitely food for thought, maybe I am wrong, hopefully someone else can provide more input into this kit, as I have this kit also to which I done an unboxing on here a while bk, and this ship is quite high up on my build list too.

Any more info would be welcome

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Rob. T. said:
Hi William and everyone else enquiring about the substance of this ship kit.

Here is my input using what reference books I have in my Library.

According to Heinrich Winters book
Der Hollandische Zweidecker von 1660/1670
(The Dutch Two decker of 1660/1670)

I have taken this translation from page 11.

"The history of the model" as follows...
The history of the model
About the reason for donating the model and its later fate
Nothing reliable could be determined, nor could it be determined which one
Ship of the Dutch fleet is supposed to be depicted. The Orange coat of arms
Decorative mirror that bears the motto of the Order of the Garter does not give any appearance
conclusion about it. The museum's files don't even reveal when
the model ended up in the museum. They only contain one lot
younger newspaper article, according to which it belonged to the Prince of Orange around 1665
was given as a gift during his visit to the fleet in Texel. The
raises the question of whether there was a ship with the same coat of arms
or whether the coat of arms is only intended as a form of attention associated with the donation
has been applied carefully.
It must also be taken into account that the guns of the model
Brandenburg eagle with Kurhut. But these pipes can
should not have been added later, because it is inconceivable that
the thick, blunt bronze bolts of the overlays for the
Just tap the pipes firmly into the pipes through the gates
The carriage cheeks could have been driven in, as was actually the case.
So this must have happened at an earlier stage of construction, i.e.
before the decks above the guns were laid. It's interesting
in this context also that the items stored in the Berlin Armory
but only from the time of Brandenburg's colonial efforts (after 1670)
The guns don't carry an eagle and a Kurhut, but rather the scepter
appears in color on a blue background. This indicates that
The donation took place at a time when Friedrich Wilhelm I, although
not yet Elector, but as Elector Prince was the future heir to this dignity,
i.e. before 1648. The model would then have to be set about 30 years earlier.
the. The ships at that time generally had a lower and
slanting forward gallion. The news leading to these considerations
have given rise to, but are too uncertain to be able to use the previously estimated
The date of creation could already be brought forward now"

I have also been researching Dutch Warships in the age of sail by James Bender.
Where on page 265 the "Westfriesland" ship is mentioned. This Ship was first mentioned in 1666 so one can assume it was built probably earlier although as others have pointed out the Dutch weren't great for keeping historical archives bk then. However according to this book and its sources the "Westfriesland" 5 refits of Armament over a period of 17yrs thus being the same ship since at least 1666(photo below from book).

I have also researched the book "A Distant Storm" The Four days battle of 1666 by Frank L. Fox.

The ship itself was heavily involved in "The Four days battle" and the battle on the "St James's day fight" under the command of L.A.(N) Jan Cornelisz Meppel in the "3rd Squadron commanded by L.A.(A) Cornelis Tromp.
I have enclosed photos again from this book for your pleasure...

My suggestion/assumption is that this kit is nearly 100% based on the ship "Westfriesland" the 80 guns being refitted at the later date between 1674-1683 where as in 1666/7 she carried 66/78 guns probably the latter regards to the documentation in this book.

It's definitely food for thought, maybe I am wrong, hopefully someone else can provide more input into this kit, as I have this kit also to which I done an unboxing on here a while bk, and this ship is quite high up on my build list too.

Any more info would be welcome

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Click to expand...
I not only love this response but the sources as well. Thank you!

Bill
 
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