Help with CA glue not bonding oak on oak

[bargejo]

I’m working on the OcCre Victory and starting the hull planking. I’ve watched the tutorials from OcCre as well as Wolfgang Zinn, John Aliprantis, and others as well as from Artesania Latina. All of them use CA glue considerably, but especially to hold planks in place to the frames while using PVA glue for the edge to edge. I’m watching several videos in what I consider to be real time and the CA glue takes only 5-10 seconds to form an initial bond. They don’t use an accelerator. The planks and frames are both oak and have been pre sanded.

My problem is that I can’t seem to get a bond. I’m using Starbond EM-150 CA glue and even when I get some test pieces to bond after clamping for 1-3 minutes I can pull them apart. Left clamped for more than 10 minutes it seems to hold but if that’s the best that can be achieved then I don’t see much advantage to using CA glue for this application. The glue is new (at least recently purchased) and less than two months old. I know for many of you, any CA glue is considered a cheat but in this application it appears to be a reasonable process. Is this the correct brand? Is there another type of CA glue that I should be using? I’ve thought of the Bob Smith brand but I hate to invest more money without some idea that it’s going to work. What do these modelers know that I don’t?

 

[Rob444]

I know nothing of the brand of CA you are using but it does sound like there is something seriously wrong with it. It is possible you have a bad bottle. I have used Zap and Locktight brands with good result, but almost any brand should work.

If it takes 10 minutes to achieve a good bond, PVA would probably be just as good. Make sure the wood is free of contaminates such as waxes.

Rob

 

[Bryian]

I use interspersed super glue and white carpenters wood glue by applying drops on the timber before clamping.

 

[AndyA]

Cap'n Bargejo:
I looked at the Starbond website but could not find EM-150 glue. They do carry glues with a range of viscosities and viscosity does make a difference. I see an 800 customer service number. A call there might be helpful. As Rob444 suggests, contaminants on the wood can also be an issue.
Fair winds!

 

[AllanKP69]

The planks and frames are both oak and have been pre sanded.

This is interesting, the first I have heard of OcCre using oak. (I may just be behind the times ) Can you post a photo of the planking as I am curious about how it looks. There are about 500 species (genus Quercus) worldwide so if anyone knows which species they use that would be great. The most common ones we see in North America are very open grained and look awful at our scales, but it sounds like they may have found something that works well and could be interesting for future builds, kit or scratch.
TIA
Allan

 

[AllanKP69]

If one is to believe responses from AI, the following is interesting
Some oak species can be challenging for cyanboacrylate (CA) glue. Osk is a naturally acidic wood, which slows the glue's moisture-activated cure; denser oaks struggle more, but using CA accelerants or specialized gap-filling/stabilizing CA glues (like those from Starbond, Titebond, Hot Stuff), and ensuring perfect surface contact, helps significantly, though wood glue is a better choice.

 

[RussF]

This is interesting, the first I have heard of OcCre using oak. (I may just be behind the times ) Can you post a photo of the planking as I am curious about how it looks. There are about 500 species (genus Quercus) worldwide so if anyone knows which species they use that would be great. The most common ones we see in North America are very open grained and look awful at our scales, but it sounds like they may have found something that works well and could be interesting for future builds, kit or scratch.
TIA
Allan

They are indeed using oak Allan. From their website:



I've use a lot of CA glues in the past. One technique that has worked for me is to spray a light misting of aerosol accelerator to the one part, i.e. the plank. Make sure you are not aimed toward the model where overspray can get on the frames and don't be too heavy handed, a light misting is all you need to kick off the curing process. If the part looks wet after spraying, you're using too much. Then apply drops of medium or thick viscosity (I seldom use thick) to your glue points, i.e. the frames. The advantage is that you will get very quick-setting glue joints. The disadvantage is that you will get very quick-setting glue joints. In other words, make sure the part is exactly where you want it before pressing it in place, because it will stick fast.

 

[Neil_jo]

It might be the C.A. glue you are using is too thin and soaks into the oak too fast.

 

[Corsair]

I agree with Neil above. Try using a thicker viscosity of CA.

 

[AllanKP69]

They are indeed using oak Allan. From their website:

Thanks Russ.