HMS Fowey 44 - Gun 1744 by AllanKP69

[AllanKP69]

I drew and printed the stem onto label paper as it does not stretch or run the ink like water based glue and I hate rubber cement.
Allan

 

[Thukydides]

Hi Richard,
Iron bolts would not work under water for very long. Copper bolts were used on the scarphs below the waterline according to Peter Goodwin, The Construction and Fitting of English Ships of War, page 7. I looked at a dozen contracts and scantling from the Establishments and while they give size and number of bolts none that I can find give the material used for making the bolts. It was much later, but bolts in the Victory keel were found to be copper. Barring any contemporary information explaining otherwise, I am pretty sure copper is appropriate.
Allan

Ah so I can enlighten you on this subject. It is around the early 1780s that you get widespread use of copper alloy bolts and fasteners below the waterline.

Now copper alloy bolts may have been used sometimes before this point, but it certainly wasn't widespread. I have a whole bunch of letters from the period where middleton is experimenting with the use of copper bolts below the waterline and arguing that they should be more widespread.

The tone of the letters suggest that prior to that point iron was the norm. Give me some time and I can go dig back into my notes on the subject. I have only transcribed a few of the documents at this point, but the thrust seems pretty consistent.

Now this is all in the context of copper sheathing and the problems of the interaction between copper and iron (which they didn't understand at the time). But given the much higher costs for copper I would be hesitant to say any ship before this had copper bolts unless you found some sort of positive evidence to suggest they were used.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

Well, Just about every ship history in Winfield that had a life of any length is full of "small repair" and "great repair". Replacing rusted fasteners = a part of the repair process?
They do seem to try to waterproof the iron fasteners. Environmental fluctuation dooms that to fail.
I think that the keel assembly is an area where what waterproofing they could do would not fit.

It is a lesson still unlearned. Reinforced concrete with any possibility for exposure to water infiltration - If there was economical rebar that is immune to oxidation - It would cost jobs in the repair and replacement field and reduce content for some TV shows.

 

[RichardG]

Ah so I can enlighten you on this subject. It is around the early 1780s that you get widespread use of copper alloy bolts and fasteners below the waterline.

Now copper alloy bolts may have been used sometimes before this point, but it certainly wasn't widespread. I have a whole bunch of letters from the period where middleton is experimenting with the use of copper bolts below the waterline and arguing that they should be more widespread.

The tone of the letters suggest that prior to that point iron was the norm. Give me some time and I can go dig back into my notes on the subject. I have only transcribed a few of the documents at this point, but the thrust seems pretty consistent.

Now this is all in the context of copper sheathing and the problems of the interaction between copper and iron (which they didn't understand at the time). But given the much higher costs for copper I would be hesitant to say any ship before this had copper bolts unless you found some sort of positive evidence to suggest they were used.

Thanks,
I guess copper mining was a mature industry becuase of the need for bronze in earlier cannons.

 

[Albert Mary]

Interesting idea. Then again, I have spools of copper wire that are ten years old that have no protective coating yet they are not tarnished at all.
Time will tell....... as Dean said, rust never sleeps......
Allan

I can confirm this statemet: the copper wire I bought and installed in my Hoy ist still perfectly bright, then I suppose the greenish patina needs outer, aggressive envirovement to settle down.