How manny boats from kits do you have to build to make one from scrats

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DocBlake said:
Bob: How about a build log of that Pegasus?
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Hi Dave,

I haven't taken any photos until this morning which I just posted. So far the framework matches the CAD drawings I made pretty closely. My frame drawings are based on contemporary Navy Board style modeling. The stern frames gave me a fit in lofting so I'm hoping that the framework will come out. There are 26 frame pairs in the model. Each frame is 1/4" wide.

I have the book that Gilbert McArdle wrote on his scratchbuilt model and frankly I'm not impressed with his method of framing. Apparently he doesn't know CAD, and perhaps that's why he decided to cover the entire hull with planking. To me, the prototype model was my inspiration but even that model is not correctly framed for a Navy Board model. It uses several different sizes of frames which I did not like. I scaled the model to 1:50 scale which is close enough to 1/4" scale (1:48) and 1/4" thick frames worked out quite well.

I'll start a build log soon but like I said, I'm concerned about the aft frames so I hope everyone will bare with me as I may have to re-loft some of the stern framework. We'll see.

Framing is slow because you have to cut out and bevel one frame at a time, glue it to the existing framework, then sand it all out. I cut the frames slightly oversize to allow for final fairing and I fair it out as I add more frames.

The opening in the framework will get cleaned up when all the frames are added. I have a method for that as well where I use tape to create a smooth line from one frame to another and then a #11 Xacto to create the slight bevels in each frame opening to thus create a smooth line. Here's a photo of my kit Fubbs model that helps show what I mean.
DSC00139.jpg

This Utrecht model has such a flat bottom in the hull that it makes it difficult to see this smooth flow of opening in the lower area. The upper area stops at the line of the wales.

That's what I'm doing on the Utrecht Pegasus so far. I'll make future postings about the build in a separate build log and thanks for asking Dave and Uwe.

Take care,

Bob
 
Looks good! Gonna finish my 2 kits and then i gonna give it aan try or 30. Wanna Do it. Bought a load of brass from a builder Who stopped building boats. Also a lot of wooden rigging parts. My wife was bussy for 2 days to sort it out. Was really cheap payed 25 euros includeing post. Came also with proxxon litle drill stuff and about 30 brass cannons. Can almost build whole ship with it. Its also fun collecting this stuff.
 
But you Do have to buy stuff like deadeyes and the carvings when building from scratch. Isnt that expensive?
 
Pat I might as well throw my 2 cents in lol.

by now most people know me and know that I have never built a model ship other than the 3 sister ships United States, Constitution, and President Revelle Plastic kits back when I was knee high to a grasshopper. actually I was 16 when I did the connie I remember it cause I totalled my dads truck just after purchasing it lol luckily wasnt my fault or I wouldnt be here now and I am going on 60.

But for the last 6 months I been interested in ships and have been learning and drawing up plans. it wont be over night but if you have good cad skills in abt the same time frame as me you should be able to be proficient enough to draw most anything you want. I prefer my solidworks 3D cad as I can build it virtually and make sure everything fits first. it is a world of difference between zbrush 3D max and other poly programs going to cad. I use both Z and 3D Max so I know how different it is.

there are threads about shipbuilding books to get which show you all you need to know and most are free for download on the web,

the 2 Most important of all is

The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War 1650-1850 (Peter Goodwin)

The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture or a Treatise on Ship-building - Steele

the third is the Vade Mecum by steele which is basically like a cliff notes version of his naval architecture treatise.

there are a lot of threads and documents out there on drawing you own even Wayne Kempson has 2 videos on drawing upo frames and explains all the lines and the reading of the charts video 1 of 2 is here he links the other

Joe
 
deadeyes etc lot of people make their own one way is to make slices of dowels for deadeyes and drill and sand them 3D printing is another method to save from buying. you really can make most everything yourself.

I would suggest 2 books which also give you the plans and that is Ed Tostis Niaid books. in nbook 1 Ed Teaches you about drawing the ship in limited version but enough to make you understand i. plus he teaches how he built the ship and shows how to make the gantry the various wood clamps and the other tools I think each book is 75 bucks but they huge books full of info for first timer and also comes with complete set of plans and other how to draw ship stuff on cd. these were my first investment in model ships and it really gave me a jump start on drawing and scratch building.

but take all my comments with a grain of salt because I was a master modeller in other areas before I got into ships so am heavily up on scratch building
 
JosephH said:
....................There are threads about shipbuilding books to get which show you all you need to know and most are free for download on the web,

the 2 Most important of all is

The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War 1650-1850 (Peter Goodwin)

The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture or a Treatise on Ship-building - Steele

....................

Joe
Click to expand...

if you are more interested in these books you can find Book reviews of them in SOS with click on the books name:

The Construction and Fitting of the Sailing Man-of-War, 1650-1850 by Peter Goodwin

and

The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship by David Steel

I would also recommend the book of James Lees
The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1860
and Brian Lavery´s
Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War, 1600-1815
 
Tnx for all the time you all spend on my question. I want to learn always with everything in do. I find the hull a difficult part so maybe i can begin with making one and see how that goes. I was a selftought airbrush artist and with every painting i had my problems and a little fear if it was good enough when popstar Prince died i got an email from a magazine in Amerika if i could Do a portrait for a tribute to Prince magazine. Then the fear came if i was good enough. At the end they published 4 of them.

I also like using an airbrush I had this old Geo tracker I must of painted over 10 times. My brother had an auto body shop and he restored classic cars. I would sand blast this Geo and paint it then a few months later sand blast it again and paint something else on it.

kind of like I did with model building I started a model and if it was not going well I scrapped it and started again and again. It was not the idea of building a model ship from start to finish it was more what Joe does. Teaching yourself as you go.

DSCF2res.jpgDSCF0lowres.jpg

go2.jpg

DSCF25.jpg
 
Nice car. My avatar is a portrait of Prince i made for magazine
 
thanks
the car is now gone last paint job was ghost painting. When you looked at the car from the side it looked like a solid color but as you walked around it a dragon would appear and disappear.

these days I am doing steampunk sculpture.

the idea comes in a flash what takes so long is figuring out how to do it

my idea is to research, study, teach myself, design, engineer, 3d print and build a working model of one of the first steam powered war ships. YA that is the flash
to me scratch building is freedom of expression. Fear of fail and doubting ones self holds you back. How do you know what you can or can not do unless you try it.
 
so Pat with your zbrush did you ever think of doing some crewmen and saving the files so that people could download them and 3d print them for their ships? I was ok with zbrush but clothes killed me or I would have done it long ago as I always wanted a pierat crew. and I could have taken them from zbrush into max and posed them before printing out
 
this is one my favorite Zbrush Pirates like I said always wished I could get clothes figured out have a million nude models no clothes rofl I was working more on the body and muscles etc this guy did a great job when his gallery was there the closeups of materials were awesome


Pirate.jpg
 
Its from blacksails isnt he?. Gonna zbrush a new try again soon. Saving money for a 3d printer but dont know in what price range a good homeprinter is. Have some cannons in zbrush for 3d printer. Moved 4 months ago but with my health problems its still not finished here. Also have to install computer with zbrush.
 
naw this was way before black sails the guy on cgsociety did it but it does look a lot like Capt Flint. I need to reinstall on this computer also . maybe have another go at trying clothes as I have an awesome super duper secret idea that I need a lot of crew for.
 
Is building from scratch at the same cost as buying a kit? You need to buy planking wood and brass and decorations.
 
Is building from scratch at the same cost as buying a kit? You need to buy planking wood and brass and decorations.

that is really difficult to answer because of so many factors to consider.

1 buying milled wood or doing it yourself
2 some ships have decorations some don't. can you carve or 3D print them yourself
3 what plans are you using did you draw them or purchase them
4 type of vessel from a simple canal boat to a ship of the line
5 what tools do you have

for me it is way cheaper to scratch build because I can draw my own plans, 3D print parts, laser cut parts and I have about 19 tons of wood in my yard plus a full woodworking shop.

someone living in a flat in the city with nothing more than a few hobby tools, a kit is cheaper

to answer the question first select a subject, find a kit of it and search out materials then you can sit down and compare kit to collecting materials.
 
Hi Dave, Going through this thread with a lot of interests, it is always scratch against kits, to an extent both have some things in common, GOOD AND I MEAN GOOD PLANS AND INSTRUCTIONS ARE A MUST, there are modelers who are quite elderly me (80) time is always a factor for me, as I can not spend years scratch building, I feel my time is better spent MODELING the doing a lot of machening in my cramped work room I prefer to call what I build as SEMI-KIT which you produce excently, just my thoughts. Don
 
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