The sided dimension is the one that is flat. The molded dimension is the one that has curves. So in the case of the keel the sided dimension would be the bird's eye view and the molded would be looking at it from the side. If I wrote that wrong someone please correct me. 
PS so if you're looking at the frames the side view and birds eye view would be the sided dimension and the view from forward or aft would be the molded dimension
PS so if you're looking at the frames the side view and birds eye view would be the sided dimension and the view from forward or aft would be the molded dimension
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Thanks very much for the reply, Don. So now that I know which is the sided dimension, does the keel taper from aft to fore? If that is true, where would the taper start, and where would it end? How would I go about representing this on a model, since all the model ship keels I've seen are the same thickness along their entire length? Or am I reading this incorrectly, with the taper occurring from the top of the keel to the bottom, 131//4" at the top and 10" at the bottom?
I'm not sure whether it would taper from bow to stern or vice versa. What scale are you buildind? In 1:48 there would be almost 1/16" taper so it might show. What ship are you buildind? I can look in my "Scantlings" book in the morning.
That's an American ship, right? I'm not sure it will follow the scantlings of the English navy. I'll look.
Steel says that in 1805(about) English ships keels were tapered both ways from the center. The one I'm looking at is a 273 ton cutter and is 8" sided(wide) at the stem, 13" midships and 8" at the sternpost. It is 13" deep. Not much help, I'm afraid.
Steel says that in 1805(about) English ships keels were tapered both ways from the center. The one I'm looking at is a 273 ton cutter and is 8" sided(wide) at the stem, 13" midships and 8" at the sternpost. It is 13" deep. Not much help, I'm afraid.
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Good morning
Don Caso, your observation is clear to me too
Yes, the Pride of Baltimore II was built in Baltimore, Md., and launched 1988 to replace the original Pride which was lost at sea in 1986. Both ships were built as an homage to the original Baltimore clippers of the early 19th century. A lot of help, I think. What this tells me is that Pride's keel was likely tapered from 131/4" at midship to 10" at the stern (stern post 10" - from scantlings), and 12" at the stem (stem post 12" - from scantlings). It seems to me that tapering the keel will prove to be quite a challenge to reproduce in 1:48 scale, and I can understand why kit manufacturers as well as modelers making POF from scratch don't include this feature on their ships. But, I have to ask, just from the viewpoint of playing devil's advocate, does this not affect a model's historical accuracy, or does this point just rise to the level of nitpicking? By the way, any clue as to why the tapered keels? Does such a feature improve sailing qualities, or affect strength in some way?
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But, I have to ask, just from the viewpoint of playing devil's advocate, does this not affect a model's historical accuracy, or does this point just rise to the level of nitpicking? By the way, any clue as to why the tapered keels? Does such a feature improve sailing qualities, or affect strength in some way?
there are very few actual historically correct models unless you building from data off a fully complete shipwreck.
keels were tappered to match up with the stem and stern posts which were sided at 8 inches. . Take the Eagle built on Lake Ontario the keel was 12 inches sided at midship and at the extreme forward end tappered to 8 inches to match up with the stem and tappered 8 inches at the stern. It is an excepted practice in model ship building to make the stem, keel and stern post all the same size except in the extreme builders catagory.
there are very few actual historically correct models unless you building from data off a fully complete shipwreck.
keels were tappered to match up with the stem and stern posts which were sided at 8 inches. . Take the Eagle built on Lake Ontario the keel was 12 inches sided at midship and at the extreme forward end tappered to 8 inches to match up with the stem and tappered 8 inches at the stern. It is an excepted practice in model ship building to make the stem, keel and stern post all the same size except in the extreme builders catagory.
So, if I'm reading this correctly, the keel of my ship would begin the stern taper at 13ft from the stern post (keel being 131/4", stern post being 10"), and begin the fore taper at 5 ft from the stem post which is 12". If you were to choose, which sided dimension would you use - keel (widest dimension=131/4",stern post=10", or stem post=12")? Thanks much for the info.
Since you're asking, you're obviously concerned with keeping it "right". It's just a few strokes with a plane so why not do it like it's supposed to be. But, as you only see the ship from the side or ends, you can't see the width, so as long as the keel blends in with the stem and stern, you're golden.
It's just a few strokes with a plane so why not do it like it's supposed to be. But, as you only see the ship from the side or ends, you can't see the width, so as long as the keel blends in with the stem and stern, you're golden.
G'day guys, don't forget it was not only the keel that tapered, the stern post also tapered from the top to where it met the keel and likewise also the stem tapered not only from the top down to where it met the keel but also it tapered from the top out to where the figurehead was seated,
Best regards John,
Best regards John,
It's a boat, it's against the rules to have anything flat, parallel or square
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Hello, I don't think it's fussiness if the question and answer have been asked, knowledge is never too much, greetings Frank
I would want to think about the utility of trying to taper the keel at the scale we are working with on a typical kit model. My first concern would be how it affects the relationships to other parts, mostly the fitment of the frames to the keel. Most kit parts are cut assuming a non tapered keel so would your taper affect the fitment of the frame parts as they attach to the keel? My second concern, and one that we all ignore as we seek more accuracy, is would we even see the taper in the finished build? At least check the issue of fitment and relationships as they relate to the kit you are building if the taper is not considered in the kit’s instructions…
Im sorry, im confused a bit. Are we talking sided view in Plan View? Taper seen from hull to false keel? Sided view would be left and right of Keel and molded view would be at false keel, correct?
Now, in Profile View, the taper (seen from stem to stern posts) would be near Posts and widest (Tallest from plan view) would be in middle....That taper is historically significant. Sided Taper, ( wider at hull than false keel) Was more of a builders choice.
Now, in Profile View, the taper (seen from stem to stern posts) would be near Posts and widest (Tallest from plan view) would be in middle....That taper is historically significant. Sided Taper, ( wider at hull than false keel) Was more of a builders choice.
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Sorry Daniele, your observation is more than correct, a question has been asked and an answer has been given, that's all. Of course you will never get the real ship from a kit, in my opinion there is more time to read up than to build. Frank
Frank…it was a great question! The answers even better! I learned something new about keel dimensions. I was just not sure how to effectively model it with kit parts. I was trying to follow up with another dimension of the question…how would one effectively model the keel taper now that we are aware of it historically? So yes…great question to ask and the answers were eye opening educational…my apologies for fumbling the follow on question…
I have copies of Thomas C Gilmer's original drawings of PoBII plus Shipways 1:64 drawings.
I am half way thru in building 1:24 model on her.
I have not posted for a while as progress has been slow due to to many things.
I am half way thru in building 1:24 model on her.
I have not posted for a while as progress has been slow due to to many things.
Pride of Baltimore II 1:24 scale scratch build
Hello Just finished the planking of the hull, glad its painted as it was my first planking job, a bit of filler and fairing to do. Thinking ahead about how to do the propulsion of the boat, it is a twin screw setup. Questions Can a single electric motor with belt drive to each of the propeller...
shipsofscale.com
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