Kingfisher 1770 1:48 POF

dockattner said:
Hello friends!

Lots of measuring and head-scratching at the workbench this week trying to sort out the placement of the aft cant frames (cant frames sit at an angle relative to the keel/deadwood). These are tricky to keep vertical - indeed, despite my very best efforts, I ended up with a slight forward tip that will need to be corrected as I move into the square frames (full frames that sit perpendicular to the keel).

I'll 'hide' some of the correction in the area of a gunport - the rest will need to come out in the placement of subsequent square frames. I cannot explain how the tip crept in - everything is square to the lines on the base of my jig. It probably has something to do with the rotation of these frames from the stern forward (the frames become increasingly more square to the keel as they move toward the middle of the ship).

Anyway, some photos for those of you who don't read the post but only look at the pictures (you know who you are ROTF):

View attachment 370096

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And a completely gratuitous and unnecessary photo of uber-cute grandchild number 3:

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I am blessed that you take the time to visit - and thank you in advance for your suggestions for improvement!
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That’s looking very nice, Paul. The frames as well as you grandchild. Nice to have them near to you.
Regards, Peter
 
Hi Paul both look great first of course your grand child and then your ship, but both are the result of your efforts so we are not suprized. :-)

By the way I guess this part should not be too difficult for you, I do see some similarities.
IMG_9481.JPG
34877823-3d-tanden-of-tand-illustratie-geïsoleerd-bovenaanzicht.jpg
 
Paul, the cant frames appear to not be sitting square with the jig notch. Just wondering if this is something to consider. Thinking about the squareness of the frame member itself and the angle relative to the keel which is not 90 deg otherwise it would not be called a cant frame, you would think the jig would account for this, and the cant frame would rest solidly in the notch. Hmmm.
Now that baby grandchild of yours is a model of pure love.
 
Daniel20 said:
Paul, the cant frames appear to not be sitting square with the jig notch. Just wondering if this is something to consider. Thinking about the squareness of the frame member itself and the angle relative to the keel which is not 90 deg otherwise it would not be called a cant frame, you would think the jig would account for this, and the cant frame would rest solidly in the notch. Hmmm.
Now that baby grandchild of yours is a model of pure love.
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That's a very good thought Daniel. Unfortunately, the fiberboard does not mill up as nicely as the boxwood nor is it possible to clean-up the notches the way I might have liked. There is quite a bit of 'slop' in the fit of the cant frames. I'm hoping the square frames fit more snugly. Still, I was very careful to square everything up with the printed frame pattern on the base of the building jig...

At the tip of the frames I'm about 1 mm out of alignment - not much, but it is visible if you look for it (translation: I see it from 20 feet away ROTF). I would tell you it's a learning experience but I'm not entirely certain what I would do different. Still having fun though!

Edit: if you are looking at the most aft frames keep in mind that they have been faired (at least partially) so they will no longer fit the notches in the building jig.
 
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dockattner said:
Hello friends!

Lots of measuring and head-scratching at the workbench this week trying to sort out the placement of the aft cant frames (cant frames sit at an angle relative to the keel/deadwood). These are tricky to keep vertical - indeed, despite my very best efforts, I ended up with a slight forward tip that will need to be corrected as I move into the square frames (full frames that sit perpendicular to the keel).

I'll 'hide' some of the correction in the area of a gunport - the rest will need to come out in the placement of subsequent square frames. I cannot explain how the tip crept in - everything is square to the lines on the base of my jig. It probably has something to do with the rotation of these frames from the stern forward (the frames become increasingly more square to the keel as they move toward the middle of the ship).

Anyway, some photos for those of you who don't read the post but only look at the pictures (you know who you are ROTF):

View attachment 370096

View attachment 370097

View attachment 370098

View attachment 370099

View attachment 370100

And a completely gratuitous and unnecessary photo of uber-cute grandchild number 3:

View attachment 370101

I am blessed that you take the time to visit - and thank you in advance for your suggestions for improvement!
Click to expand...
Good morning Paul. Yep very cute - definitely takes after the Grandmothers side of the family ;) .
Anyway, some photos for those of you who don't read the post but only look at the pictures (you know who you are ROTF):
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ROTFROTF
The frames are beautifully made Paul and I cannot see how the marginal forward tip will deviate from the model once all the frames are in. Of course as you go further that 1mm may yet cause some consternation. The best line is that you are having fun in your reply to Daniel. Cheers Grant
 
dockattner said:
if you are looking at the most aft frames keep in mind that they have been faired (at least partially) so they will no longer fit the notches in the building jig.
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Ah yes that would explain my observation. I know from experience trying to plumb up a post or rod in two directions simultaneously can be a chore. We all could
use one of these gizmos only miniaturized.

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Hi Paul, great pictures of your progress and also of your frames ROTF

BTW, I occasionally read the verbiage, but then a picture is worth a thousand words.:rolleyes:

Jan
 
AnobiumPunctatum said:
Paul, please check the alignment of the after cants at the port side. It looks, that they are not aligned right to the transoms.
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Keenly observed Christian. All is well - the most aft frame is just shorter than the one next to it:

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Please (please, please) keep looking for problem areas and pointing them out to me. I need all the help I can get!
 
First: Lovely granddaughter, Paul.
Second: Apparently, the stern of your build is something of a problem area. Unfortunately I have no experience with this POF model, but I don't think you should disregard the issue and continue your build, until you either have solved the issue at hand, or have a plan B on how to solve the consequences further on in the build. Frames, not properly fitting in a jig (this ís your reference frame), even when pre-chamfered, does not sit right with me.
 
AnobiumPunctatum said:
View attachment 370302

Paul, I marked the area in the foto. I am surprised that there is a difference in the lines. In my opinion should the difference on both sites of the hull nearly the same.
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I see now. I'm at work so I'll take a look when I get home. I'm hoping it is the angle the photo is taken from.
 
RDN1954 said:
First: Lovely granddaughter, Paul.
Second: Apparently, the stern of your build is something of a problem area. Unfortunately I have no experience with this POF model, but I don't think you should disregard the issue and continue your build, until you either have solved the issue at hand, or have a plan B on how to solve the consequences further on in the build. Frames, not properly fitting in a jig (this ís your reference frame), even when pre-chamfered, does not sit right with me.
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Thanks for sharing your concern Johan. Before fairing...the frames fit the jig (generally speaking, that is; the fiberboard jig material is soft so it does not mill precisely nor does it retain its detailed form very well), so I'm hoping that's all it is. Indeed, it would be impossible for a faired frame to fit a notch made to fit a non-faired frame. BUT, I clearly have done something wrong or the aft frames would not be tipped forward. I've convinced myself it has something to do with the rotation of the frames as they move forward toward the middle of the ship but I am open to other possibilities.

Anyway, I have noodled over this, removed and reinstalled frames, and made some corrections to the tipping. I'm not sure what else to do at this point. Starting over is not really an option Redface.
 
dockattner said:
Thanks for sharing your concern Johan. Before fairing...the frames fit the jig (generally speaking, that is; the fiberboard jig material is soft so it does not mill precisely nor does it retain its detailed form very well), so I'm hoping that's all it is. Indeed, it would be impossible for a faired frame to fit a notch made to fit a non-faired frame. BUT, I clearly have done something wrong or the aft frames would not be tipped forward. I've convinced myself it has something to do with the rotation of the frames as they move forward toward the middle of the ship but I am open to other possibilities.

Anyway, I have noodled over this, removed and reinstalled frames, and made some corrections to the tipping. I'm not sure what else to do at this point. Starting over is not really an option Redface.
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Starting over not an option; roger that!
You say your aft frames are tilting forward; did you check your aft keel dimensionally and in relation with your jig? If, for one reason or another, your frames tilt fwd, this could mean the aft section of your keel has moved aft a little bit, relative to nominal. In other words the frame locations on your keel may no longer match the frame positions in your jig. What doesn't help is the soft jig material. In general that should be tougher/stiffer than the materials of the parts.
 
RDN1954 said:
could mean the aft section of your keel has moved aft a little bit
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Hmm... will need to check that. It WAS fine and the keel is screwed down - but maybe some operator error in drilling the holes for the bolts in the base is allowing front and back movement. The tip is very small but I am trying to work at a high level of precision.
 
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