Kingfisher 1770 1:48 POF

[Dean62]

Just a quick thought - when milling wood, even very hard wood, cutting to .005" is overkill. Why? Because all wood moves. It tries to equalize with the ambient humidity. It swells and it shrinks. Milling metal and mill wood are not typically to the same tolerances.

I agree Phil, wood and metal are very different materials to cut, and very different in how they react to temperature change.
Also keep in mind, even though wood has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion than metal, if using the same wood species, then it should move the same amount. This is something to be mindful of when choosing the type of joint you use between two pieces, and especially if they are dissimilar species. But when working on small models, these changes are very minimal relative to the actual ships.

ps - the coefficient of expansion in wood is per inch of material per degree F, this is why tiny models pieces are less likely to be effected enough to cause problems.

 

[Tobias]

I agree Phil, wood and metal are very different materials to cut, and very different in how they react to temperature change.
Also keep in mind, even though wood has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion than metal, if using the same wood species, then it should move the same amount. This is something to be mindful of when choosing the type of joint you use between two pieces, and especially if they are dissimilar species. But when working on small models, these changes are very minimal relative to the actual ships.

ps - the coefficient of expansion in wood is per inch of material per degree F, this is why tiny models pieces are less likely to be effected enough to cause problems.

Learned something again, thanks for the extremely interesting information @Dean62 .

 

[Don Case]

And PVA is flexible.

 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Just a quick thought - when milling wood, even very hard wood, cutting to .005" is overkill. Why? Because all wood moves. It tries to equalize with the ambient humidity. It swells and it shrinks. Milling metal and mill wood are not typically to the same tolerances.

I did not agree with you. 1/100mm is the repeating accuracy, which allows the CNC to start at the same point. This is quite useful, if you will use different mills or need different steps for milling. This has nothing to do with movement of the timber. It makes it also easier to glue timbers together, for example the different parts of the deadwood. If you use such a tool it is also important to think about tolerances. If you want to put two timbers without any space together it's not possible. Every glue needs 1/10mm. If you start working with a CNC you have to think about this.

Before I work, I let all my wood at minimum one month in my apartement, before I start. This helps the timber to aclimate.

 

[Philski]

I did not agree with you. 1/100mm is the repeating accuracy, which allows the CNC to start at the same point. This is quite useful, if you will use different mills or need different steps for milling. This has nothing to do with movement of the timber. It makes it also easier to glue timbers together, for example the different parts of the deadwood. If you use such a tool it is also important to think about tolerances. If you want to put two timbers without any space together it's not possible. Every glue needs 1/10mm. If you start working with a CNC you have to think about this.

Before I work, I let all my wood at minimum one month in my apartement, before I start. This helps the timber to aclimate.

I've been working with wood over 60 years. I've milled thousands of board feet and I can ascertain, milling to thousandths of an inch is not necessary. I understand the precision inherent to CNC (I have a lot of time on milling machines, Bridgeports, Tree) but as soon as you cut the wood to a size, it will move with the change in humidity. Different species does make a difference. I do acclimate my stock in my shop for weeks before milling. I do purchase kiln dried stock from a hardood supplier locally. I cut wood to design dimensions and glue up with clamping without allowing 1/10mm for the glue. I don't find it necessary. Along with model ships, I also build furniture and other items from various species of wood.

 

[shota70]

I've been working with wood over 60 years. I've milled thousands of board feet and I can ascertain, milling to thousandths of an inch is not necessary. I understand the precision inherent to CNC (I have a lot of time on milling machines, Bridgeports, Tree) but as soon as you cut the wood to a size, it will move with the change in humidity. Different species does make a difference. I do acclimate my stock in my shop for weeks before milling. I do purchase kiln dried stock from a hardood supplier locally. I cut wood to design dimensions and glue up with clamping without allowing 1/10mm for the glue. I don't find it necessary. Along with model ships, I also build furniture and other items from various species of wood.View attachment 351242View attachment 351243View attachment 351244View attachment 351245View attachment 351247View attachment 351248View attachment 351249View attachment 351250

View attachment 351246

My dear friend, you have a very respectable full house where you create beautiful works, well done

 

[dockattner]

Just the briefest of updates (lots of catch-up work post wedding and post vacation so modeling time has been limited).

After a series of trials using different solutions for creating the caulking between these large timbers (tar-soaked flannel on the real ships) I ended up using black cellulose paper (tissue paper). This gave me the cleanest lines though it's a bit of a hassle to use. Charcoal/pencil was a very close second and is much easier to do so I'm not entirely certain why I chose against it. Tinted glue just highlighted the irregularity of the gap between the timbers. If I was better at getting these pieces shaped / fitted I'm certain it would have worked great. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and tips.

I also fabricated what I am hoping will be one of the more challenging constructions: the lower apron (the cant frames at the bow will seat into the notches on this timber). I'll need to make another one of these things at the stern and I'm not really looking forward to that (perhaps the second go at it will be more efficient timewise).

Here's a look...







I think I am spending too much time cleaning up the parts I am pre-fabricating but I'm not sure what gets sanded/faired/tapered going forward so I'm trying to work at a pretty high level just in case.

Oh, a tip...if you also choose black cellulose for caulking you have to allow for the thickness of it when refining the joints. I thought it was so thin it wouldn't matter, but it does (and a surprising amount).

Thanks for visiting!

 

[Steef66]

Clean work and good idea of the tissue

 

[Pathfinder65]

Nice start. Looking forward to your progress.

 

[shota70]

Just the briefest of updates (lots of catch-up work post wedding and post vacation so modeling time has been limited).

After a series of trials using different solutions for creating the caulking between these large timbers (tar-soaked flannel on the real ships) I ended up using black cellulose paper (tissue paper). This gave me the cleanest lines though it's a bit of a hassle to use. Charcoal/pencil was a very close second and is much easier to do so I'm not entirely certain why I chose against it. Tinted glue just highlighted the irregularity of the gap between the timbers. If I was better at getting these pieces shaped / fitted I'm certain it would have worked great. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and tips.

I also fabricated what I am hoping will be one of the more challenging constructions: the lower apron (the cant frames at the bow will seat into the notches on this timber). I'll need to make another one of these things at the stern and I'm not really looking forward to that (perhaps the second go at it will be more efficient timewise).

Here's a look...

View attachment 351331

View attachment 351332

View attachment 351333

I think I am spending too much time cleaning up the parts I am pre-fabricating but I'm not sure what gets sanded/faired/tapered going forward so I'm trying to work at a pretty high level just in case.

Oh, a tip...if you also choose black cellulose for caulking you have to allow for the thickness of it when refining the joints. I thought it was so thin it wouldn't matter, but it does (and a surprising amount).

Thanks for visiting!

beautiful & accurate work my dear friend

 

[Hoss6262]

Just the briefest of updates (lots of catch-up work post wedding and post vacation so modeling time has been limited).

After a series of trials using different solutions for creating the caulking between these large timbers (tar-soaked flannel on the real ships) I ended up using black cellulose paper (tissue paper). This gave me the cleanest lines though it's a bit of a hassle to use. Charcoal/pencil was a very close second and is much easier to do so I'm not entirely certain why I chose against it. Tinted glue just highlighted the irregularity of the gap between the timbers. If I was better at getting these pieces shaped / fitted I'm certain it would have worked great. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and tips.

I also fabricated what I am hoping will be one of the more challenging constructions: the lower apron (the cant frames at the bow will seat into the notches on this timber). I'll need to make another one of these things at the stern and I'm not really looking forward to that (perhaps the second go at it will be more efficient timewise).

Here's a look...

View attachment 351331

View attachment 351332

View attachment 351333

I think I am spending too much time cleaning up the parts I am pre-fabricating but I'm not sure what gets sanded/faired/tapered going forward so I'm trying to work at a pretty high level just in case.

Oh, a tip...if you also choose black cellulose for caulking you have to allow for the thickness of it when refining the joints. I thought it was so thin it wouldn't matter, but it does (and a surprising amount).

Thanks for visiting!

Really clean work Paul. Just another exercise is dealing with ambiguity? I wish I had read your post earlier. With boxwood density I think a black sharpie test may have had a chance in the running.

I am keen to know how you sanded/cleaned those tiny 90 degree recesses. They are very tight.

 

[rtibbs]

I am keen to know how you sanded/cleaned those tiny 90 degree recesses. They are very tight.

Ditto Ken. Inquiring minds want to know. My first guess is “Very carefully”

 

[dockattner]

I am keen to know how you sanded/cleaned those tiny 90 degree recesses.

Really sharp chisels and a #11 X-Acto blade. Nothing fancy - just time. It was trying to maintain symmetry that nearly killed me.

 

[dockattner]

Thank you for the likes and kind words friends.

 

[Heinrich]

Very cleanly executed, young man.

 

[Rand]

Paul, may I get in on watching your build. At 76 this may be my last chance! Work fast.
Thank you, Rand

 

[Tobias]

Hello Paul the result looks great. I will definitely try this next time.

 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Slow and steady. Th fore deadwood looks really good.

 

[GrantTyler]

Good morning Paul. Off to the perfect start.

If I was better at getting these pieces shaped / fitted I'm certain it would have worked great.

Ok Paul… you worry me . I cannot see where in any way these pieces are not shaped perfectly. You do incredible work.

I'm not entirely certain why I chose against it.

….do you ever choose the easy way- I think you love a challenge for perfection or maybe a glutton for punishment .
Seriously- Brilliant work Paul.
Cheers Grant

 

[Peter Voogt]

The parts looks very nice and sharp, Paul.

I ended up using black cellulose paper (tissue paper).

Yes, another model builder using tissue paper for his model.
Regards, Peter