Kingfisher 1770 1:48 POF

Paul, you're creating just a mesmerizing beauty here. The amount of work I know you are putting into this is staggering to me, but your effort will be well worth it for the viewing pleasure of your family and friends, not to mention your followers on this forum.
 
Absoutely wonderful !
Paul,
Wonderful work. I especially like the the treenails and wood finish on your upper planking.

I think it is long time we did away with certain adjectives like, "beginner" or "novice" when it comes to you as a modeler. Can we all agree on you being an "accomplished" and/or "skilled" builder at the very least. ;)

Well done mate!
Paul, you're creating just a mesmerizing beauty here. The amount of work I know you are putting into this is staggering to me, but your effort will be well worth it for the viewing pleasure of your family and friends, not to mention your followers on this forum.
Absolutely stunnung result with your exemplary planking/treenailing. Wow.
Jeff, Ken, Daniel and Herman...my deepest thanks!
And to everyone else for the likes!
 
No work (paying job) the past two days so I finished the trenails on the hull planking above the lower wale (and sanded everything out including a first coat of wipe-on-poly). I'm happier with the contrast between the trenails and the planking (both are boxwood) on this upper portion than I am with the lower hull (though I don't think the lower hull is THAT bad - just not what I had envisioned in my mind).

Anyway, here is the overall look and then some closer shots documenting my work:

View attachment 412960

View attachment 412963

View attachment 412962

View attachment 412964

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I think I have now burned through any pent-up desire I may have had to trenail a ship's hull. That's just a bit over 6000 trenails (on half of the hull and only on the exterior). And this is a rather small ship compared to others. My respect to anyone attempting this on a larger ship.

I'm going to take a little break and do some upgrades on my mill that I have read about here on the forum. Thanks for the visit!
masterpiece Exclamation-MarkOkay
 
No work (paying job) the past two days so I finished the trenails on the hull planking above the lower wale (and sanded everything out including a first coat of wipe-on-poly). I'm happier with the contrast between the trenails and the planking (both are boxwood) on this upper portion than I am with the lower hull (though I don't think the lower hull is THAT bad - just not what I had envisioned in my mind).

Anyway, here is the overall look and then some closer shots documenting my work:

View attachment 412960

View attachment 412963

View attachment 412962

View attachment 412964

View attachment 412965

View attachment 412961

I think I have now burned through any pent-up desire I may have had to trenail a ship's hull. That's just a bit over 6000 trenails (on half of the hull and only on the exterior). And this is a rather small ship compared to others. My respect to anyone attempting this on a larger ship.

I'm going to take a little break and do some upgrades on my mill that I have read about here on the forum. Thanks for the visit!
A very beautiful result, Paul. The time invested has paid off.
Regard, Peter
 
Wow Paul, fantastic.
You have done a wonderful job, respect.
6000 treenails is a great achievement and I know what you're talking about, it's an insane amount of work and very time-consuming. I think the overall picture looks really great, the woods contrast beautifully with each other and it's very harmonious.

The only thing I might criticise is that the treenails are too close to the edge of the boards, I made this mistake too and it was pointed out to me in the French forum.
 
Exquisite treenailing job you did on the hull, you really nailed it.
I guess I can see why you prefer your upper hull above the lower hull job, but maybe, once you've applied the intended finish, the overall look could be a bit less harsh.
As far as re-do's go, they are frequent, regular occurrences, rather than an exceptional one.
 
masterpiece Exclamation-MarkOkay
Really wonderful.
A very beautiful result, Paul. The time invested has paid off.
Regard, Peter
Exquisite treenailing job you did on the hull, you really nailed it.
I guess I can see why you prefer your upper hull above the lower hull job, but maybe, once you've applied the intended finish, the overall look could be a bit less harsh.
As far as re-do's go, they are frequent, regular occurrences, rather than an exceptional one.
Shota, Christian, Peter and Johann - your kind words warm my heart! My thanks!
 
No work (paying job) the past two days so I finished the trenails on the hull planking above the lower wale (and sanded everything out including a first coat of wipe-on-poly). I'm happier with the contrast between the trenails and the planking (both are boxwood) on this upper portion than I am with the lower hull (though I don't think the lower hull is THAT bad - just not what I had envisioned in my mind).

Anyway, here is the overall look and then some closer shots documenting my work:

View attachment 412960

View attachment 412963

View attachment 412962

View attachment 412964

View attachment 412965

View attachment 412961

I think I have now burned through any pent-up desire I may have had to trenail a ship's hull. That's just a bit over 6000 trenails (on half of the hull and only on the exterior). And this is a rather small ship compared to others. My respect to anyone attempting this on a larger ship.

I'm going to take a little break and do some upgrades on my mill that I have read about here on the forum. Thanks for the visit!
Wow!! Again, just Wow! Exclamation-Mark
 
Wow Paul, fantastic.
You have done a wonderful job, respect.
6000 treenails is a great achievement and I know what you're talking about, it's an insane amount of work and very time-consuming. I think the overall picture looks really great, the woods contrast beautifully with each other and it's very harmonious.

The only thing I might criticise is that the treenails are too close to the edge of the boards, I made this mistake too and it was pointed out to me in the French forum.
No problem, I'll just move them over a bit ROTF...

Seriously, that's an excellent and helpful critique Tobias. Per usual I used Antscherl as my guide:

IMG_0068.JPG

When I look at this drawing it says to me: closer to the edge is better...but I then maybe took it too far (especially on the rather wide sheer strake). Thanks for pointing this out so I (and others) could benefit from what you have learned.
 
And now, A Retrospective on what this relative newcomer (sorry, Ken, accomplished builder ROTF) has learned about trenails/treenails/trunnels.

1. Before you commit to anything on your ship - do a sample board with some SIZE to it. I sampled techniques, tested for size, material, finishes. All of it. But I did this in a very limited sense (a few short planks). What I failed to do was create a sizable sample board with hundreds of trenails and that would have been really helpful in making good choices.

2. Size matters. My goal was to get under 1 inch (25 mm) for wooden trenails. The best I could do with a drawplate (more about that in a moment) was about 1.1 inches (at scale that's 0.56-0.58 mm). Perhaps other accomplished builders :) can make wooden trenails smaller than that on a drawplate but I couldn't swing it. If that is your goal, then bypass hardwood and use bamboo (I could make bamboo trenails down to 0.52 mm, but they were darker than the boxwood version and I didn't like that on the holly strakes). I think @Peter Voogt used bamboo toothpicks with a drawplate on his Bluenose and they seemed to work nicely (building at 1:72 I think???).

Anyway, 1.1-inch trenails (28 mm) look a bit oversized to my eye at 1:48. If you are building at a smaller scale and are shooting for historical accuracy, be sure to think this through. Of course, there is much to be said for an artistic (rather than historic) representation of trenails at smaller scales as we have seen on many models (including my own Vasa) to great effect.

3. And if you want to use a drawplate then don't even bother if you don't have a Byrnes drawplate (yes, I know, sadly he is gone). Other drawplates are garbage compared to his. And jeweler's drawplates for metals don't work on wood; they compress the metal down to size rather than shave it (which is what you want for wood).

3b. Speaking of metals...you can make brass/copper trenails very (!) small - but that's a look you may (or may not) like. As an aside, I have recently learned that French construction alternates metal and wooden fasteners - curious, but fun (which, by the way, is an apt description of the French in general ROTF). My fantastic son-in-law is French so no hate mail...

4. I insisted on using a drawplate to create my trenail stock IN BULK in order to add some efficiency to the installation process. Others have used a sanding technique (Tobias and Sasha come to mind, but I'm sure there are others) to 're-point' each trenail prior to installation. I believe this will create smaller trenails (really only limited by the size of the drilled hole) but THE EFFORT TO DO THIS SHOULD NOT BE UNDERESTIMATED. Hand-working 6000 individual trenails was beyond me!

5. There is an inherent tension to the process of trenailing. Namely, the collision of high concentration when it comes to marking and drilling tiny holes - and the tedium of marking and drilling tiny holes (never mind the tedium of filling all those tiny holes with pegs of wood). Maintaining an operational level of concentration for precise placement is not easy over extended periods of time. But taking breaks every five minutes means weeks/months of trenailing rather than days/weeks of trenailing. Again, test before you commit!

6. Finally, don't underestimate the hand skills needed for miniature trenails. I suspect most everyone on this site can do it - but it needs to be said.

I hope this Retrospective might be helpful to someone out there...

And please add your own experiences so we can all learn together!
 
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You make some excellent points in your retrospective Paul, which I can very much relate too.

I anticipated treenailing my hull, deck and peripherals during various stages of construction for my 1/64 build. I too made multiple tests of different woods after trying over some time to draw down to scale. I had never made treenails before so purchased a Byrnes drawplate but struggled to get down to anywhere near a realistic diameter. The best I could do was a few samples at about 0.51mm and that was with many breakages. Even then they were still too large and I foresaw weeks of tedium for an oversized measles effect. I know there are many expert and experienced modellers out there who can achieve amazing results and to scale. However, there are others who decry the nails at such small scale as visibly unnecessary with little return.

Treenailing is without doubt an individual choice dependent on the skills of the modeller. In my case with waning eyesight and limited bench time the decision to not treenail allows me more time for other more visible processes. The counter argument is, of course, that in order to learn and gain experience you need to make the effort. At a larger scale I have no doubt I would treenail accordingly but that’s for a future build as my experience grows.

Thanks for your thought provoking post.
 
And now, A Retrospective on what this relative newcomer (sorry, Ken, accomplished builder ROTF) has learned about trenails/treenails/trunnels.

1. Before you commit to anything on your ship - do a sample board with some SIZE to it. I sampled techniques, tested for size, material, finishes. All of it. But I did this in a very limited sense (a few short planks). What I failed to do was create a sizable sample board with hundreds of trenails and that would have been really helpful in making good choices.

2. Size matters. My goal was to get under 1 inch (25 mm) for wooden trenails. The best I could do with a drawplate (more about that in a moment) was about 1.1 inches (at scale that's 0.56-0.58 mm). Perhaps other accomplished builders :) can make wooden trenails smaller than that on a drawplate but I couldn't swing it. If that is your goal, then bypass hardwood and use bamboo (I could make bamboo trenails down to 0.52 mm, but they were darker than the boxwood version and I didn't like that on the holly strakes). I think @Peter Voogt used bamboo toothpicks with a drawplate on his Bluenose and they seemed to work nicely (building at 1:72 I think???).

Anyway, 1.1-inch trenails (28 mm) look a bit oversized to my eye at 1:48. If you are building at a smaller scale and are shooting for historical accuracy, be sure to think this through. Of course, there is much to be said for an artistic (rather than historic) representation of trenails at smaller scales as we have seen on many models (including my own Vasa) to great effect.

3. And if you want to use a drawplate then don't even bother if you don't have a Byrnes drawplate (yes, I know, sadly he is gone). Other drawplates are garbage compared to his. And jeweler's drawplates for metals don't work on wood; they compress the metal down to size rather than shave it (which is what you want for wood).

3b. Speaking of metals...you can make brass/copper trenails very (!) small - but that's a look you may (or may not) like. As an aside, I have recently learned that French construction alternates metal and wooden fasteners - curious, but fun (which, by the way, is an apt description of the French in general ROTF). My fantastic son-in-law is French so no hate mail...

4. I insisted on using a drawplate to create my trenail stock IN BULK in order to add some efficiency to the installation process. Others have used a sanding technique (Tobias and Sasha come to mind, but I'm sure there are others) to 're-point' each trenail prior to installation. I believe this will create smaller trenails (really only limited by the size of the drilled hole) but THE EFFORT TO DO THIS SHOULD NOT BE UNDERESTIMATED. Hand-working 6000 individual trenails was beyond me!

5. There is an inherent tension to the process of trenailing. Namely, the collision of high concentration when it comes to marking and drilling tiny holes - and the tedium of marking and drilling tiny holes (never mind the tedium of filling all those tiny holes with pegs of wood). Maintaining an operational level of concentration for precise placement is not easy over extended periods of time. But taking breaks every five minutes means weeks/months of trenailing rather than days/weeks of trenailing. Again, test before you commit!

6. Finally, don't underestimate the hand skills needed for miniature trenails. I suspect most everyone on this site can do it - but it needs to be said.

I hope this Retrospective might be helpful to someone out there...

And please add your own experiences so we can all learn together!
Well described, mon ami! Is this a chapter from your upcoming scale modeling book? Hope I didn't reveal the secret! ;) SpeechlessI will be the first one to buy it!
 
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