Looking for Refit plans of HMS Glorious 1782

Joined
Sep 5, 2020
Messages
91
Points
88

Does anyone have any information on the British 74 gun HMS Glorious 1782 refit alterations, after it was captured from the French, before it sank in a Hurricane the same year along with a few other ships.

As I have 2 Heller Le Glorieux 1/150 kits I am hoping to alter one of these to HMS Glorious after the British captured her.
 

Uwek

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
18,351
Points
938

Location
Vienna, Austria
Does anyone have any information on the British 74 gun HMS Glorious 1782 refit alterations, after it was captured from the French, before it sank in a Hurricane the same year along with a few other ships.

As I have 2 Heller Le Glorieux 1/150 kits I am hoping to alter one of these to HMS Glorious after the British captured her.
My two cents, although I do not know the details completely...

The french Le Glorieux (1756) was captured during the Battle of the Saintes or Battle of Dominica in the Caribbean 12 April 1782. Together with Ville de Paris, Ardent, Hector and Cesar (distroyed).

French_Captive_Ships_12_April_1782.jpg
A painting of the french prises after the battle

From wikipedia about the battle:

Rodney's failure to follow up the victory by a pursuit was criticised. Samuel Hood said that the 20 French ships would have been captured had Rodney maintained the chase. .......

On 17 April Hood was sent in pursuit of the French, and promptly captured two 64-gun ships of the line (Jason and Caton) and two smaller warships in the Battle of the Mona Passage on 19 April.

Following this victory, Hood rendezvoused with Rodney at Port Royal on 29 April. As a result of the damage the fleet had sustained in battle, repairs took nine weeks.
.....
Disaster struck months after the battle when Admiral Graves was leading a fleet back to England that included the French prizes from the battle. The fleet encountered the 1782 Central Atlantic hurricane in September, which hit off Newfoundland. Glorieux, Hector and Ville de Paris, along with other ships, foundered or sank with heavy loss of life.

Comment:
So from end of April the fleet (and also french captured prises) was repaired during 9 weeks, so we are beginning July !


in addition on wikipedia about the Glorieux we can read:

She sailed with the fleet for England on 25 July 1782 but was lost later that year in a hurricane storm off Newfoundland on 16–17 September, along with the other captured French prize ships Ville de Paris and Hector. Glorieux was lost with all hands, including her captain, Thomas Cadogan, son of Charles Cadogan, 3rd Baron Cadogan. This disaster to the fleet of Admiral Graves also saw the loss of HMS Ramillies, HMS Centaur, the storeships Dutton and British Queen, and other merchantmen from a convoy of 94 ships, with a total of over 3,500 men lost.


Comment:
This sequence of events

in April captured in Caribian sea
End of April to beginning July repaired in Caribian
during July preparation for trip to England
End of July start the trip to England
lost in storm in September near Newfoundland

makes it (at least for me) unlikely, that she was already adjusted or refitted in between. Usually these works also with changing the armament was done in England and took often several months or years.

BTW: also we can not find any contemporary drawings in the NMM, usually after capture a french vessel, the english shipwrights made detailed drawings of the ships and the alterations made (if any), but I am not aware about any drawings of the Glorieux.......

So I think, that as HMS Glorieux she look the same like the Le Glorieux........ but this is pure interpretation and not based on real knowledge



 
Joined
Sep 5, 2020
Messages
91
Points
88

My two cents, although I do not know the details completely...

The french Le Glorieux (1756) was captured during the Battle of the Saintes or Battle of Dominica in the Caribbean 12 April 1782. Together with Ville de Paris, Ardent, Hector and Cesar (distroyed).

View attachment 234053
A painting of the french prises after the battle

From wikipedia about the battle:

Rodney's failure to follow up the victory by a pursuit was criticised. Samuel Hood said that the 20 French ships would have been captured had Rodney maintained the chase. .......

On 17 April Hood was sent in pursuit of the French, and promptly captured two 64-gun ships of the line (Jason and Caton) and two smaller warships in the Battle of the Mona Passage on 19 April.

Following this victory, Hood rendezvoused with Rodney at Port Royal on 29 April. As a result of the damage the fleet had sustained in battle, repairs took nine weeks.
.....
Disaster struck months after the battle when Admiral Graves was leading a fleet back to England that included the French prizes from the battle. The fleet encountered the 1782 Central Atlantic hurricane in September, which hit off Newfoundland. Glorieux, Hector and Ville de Paris, along with other ships, foundered or sank with heavy loss of life.

Comment:
So from end of April the fleet (and also french captured prises) was repaired during 9 weeks, so we are beginning July !


in addition on wikipedia about the Glorieux we can read:

She sailed with the fleet for England on 25 July 1782 but was lost later that year in a hurricane storm off Newfoundland on 16–17 September, along with the other captured French prize ships Ville de Paris and Hector. Glorieux was lost with all hands, including her captain, Thomas Cadogan, son of Charles Cadogan, 3rd Baron Cadogan. This disaster to the fleet of Admiral Graves also saw the loss of HMS Ramillies, HMS Centaur, the storeships Dutton and British Queen, and other merchantmen from a convoy of 94 ships, with a total of over 3,500 men lost.


Comment:
This sequence of events

in April captured in Caribian sea
End of April to beginning July repaired in Caribian
during July preparation for trip to England
End of July start the trip to England
lost in storm in September near Newfoundland

makes it (at least for me) unlikely, that she was already adjusted or refitted in between. Usually these works also with changing the armament was done in England and took often several months or years.

BTW: also we can not find any contemporary drawings in the NMM, usually after capture a french vessel, the english shipwrights made detailed drawings of the ships and the alterations made (if any), but I am not aware about any drawings of the Glorieux.......

So I think, that as HMS Glorieux she look the same like the Le Glorieux........ but this is pure interpretation and not based on real knowledge



Thank you Uwek, I was begging to think along these lines also, as myself could not find any interpretation of Hms Glorieux/Glorious after the British had captured her at the Battle of the Saintes.
As you say a total new refit would have taken months at probably an English port, so one can I suppose correctly assume that they were on their way to England to do just that when the Hurricane struck.

I am kind of sad in a way that at this point I wont exactly be able to alter my 2nd Le Glorieux kit with the exception of sticking a British Flag on her.

I may have to look elsewhere for refitted french ships to English ones to maybe give an idea of what she could have been regards to rigging and guns obviously from a similar ship around the same period.

Thanks again ⚓⚓
 

Uwek

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
18,351
Points
938

Location
Vienna, Austria
There were so much french ships captured by the british, and often there are drawings showing the alterations.
You can serach for captured ships and check afterwards the NMM web-page, if there are contemporary drawings at the NMM available


you can find a list of most of the captured ships in the 18th century here:


and here is a list of french ships of the line:


If you wish I can help in searching for drawings.......
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2020
Messages
91
Points
88

There were so much french ships captured by the british, and often there are drawings showing the alterations.
You can serach for captured ships and check afterwards the NMM web-page, if there are contemporary drawings at the NMM available


you can find a list of most of the captured ships in the 18th century here:


and here is a list of french ships of the line:


If you wish I can help in searching for drawings.......
Thanks very much for those links Uwek, it seems even the NMM can't give anymore information on Le Glorieux/Hms Glorieux other than it being destroyed in a hurricane in 1782 and a relevant artists portrait of the scene.

However the links of course will be of great help researching other captured ships.

Thank you again Uwek for your considerable help. ⚓⚓
 
Top