Mantua Sergal's Sovereign of Seas

Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

Thanks a lot Clare. It would be nice if I can finish this by the end of the year and get it cased. Once that is done, perhaps the group could car pool down and see all the my models on display.
 
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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

<t>Yes, we can plan our tour of the Maple Maritime Model Museum! <br/>
<br/>
Maybe we'll figure out a way to make it a special ship modeler's meet-up out your way. It might even draw a few folks from further east of you too.<br/>
<br/>
Clare</t>
 
Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

<r>You guys should take some pics and post um up for those of us that cant get out to the left cost <E>:D</E></r>
 
Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

I have a log for everything I have built or currently working on in this section. Under "Time for coffee and general discussion" section, there are some pictures in the "SF Bay Area" topic.
 
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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

Thanks a lot. I thought if I put it in writing, it would give me incentive enough to try and make it happen. However, I still don't know how one half of the year went by so fast.
 
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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

<t>Hi Gary, you are so right. As the expression says "Time flies when you are having fun" therefore model building must be fun. I remember when I was at school and first working, the year never seemed to come to an end and now the year seems to last six months and not twelve.<br/>
BTW Gary, I am putting a blog together showing a beautiful diorama of the Soleil Royal being repaired after a battle. When it is done I will PM you the link as well as post the link in 'Time for coffee' thread.<br/>
Regards<br/>
Eric</t>
 
Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

At this stage, there are over 3,500 parts and 650 hours involved in the building process.
The stern area was very incorrect and Amati castings were used to fix what could be fixed. These were used on the center of the galley area and the area below the walkways. This area had two large plaques and the gun ports were circular with wreathes around them. Two more right and left facing unicorns are ordered to finish up the stern decorations.
At this point, the masts, yards, platforms, flagpoles and rigging are all that is needed to complete the model. Since the measurements for the flagpoles is not mentioned anywhere else in any research, this is about the only item that will remain unchanged from the kit as provided. Even though the diameter of the mast and the taper shown on the plans is incorrect, they have to remain the same for platforms to fit correctly. Hounds were used under the lower mast platforms during this time period and will be constructed using the dimensions given on the Amati plans.
This model can represent the ship from 1637 up to it rebuilding in 1651. The rebuilding involved shortening the forecastle heights, removing the forward extensions of the side quarter galleries, removing the poop deck and shortening the head. For my model, I am choosing to show it sometime after 1640 so that at least one footrope can be shown. All the other footropes would not come into use for decades. Stirrups and Flemish horses would also be decades away. The eight-sided center on the yards would not happen until 1730. I have already mentioned other errors that Mantua makes with the rigging. To rig this anyway near what the vessel was rigged like requires books by Lees, Anderson, Sephton and Mondfeld. However, I will show what changes I make as I go through the building processes and hopefully make it clear enough that the books are not required.
The height of the ship was 212 feet from the bottom of the keel to the top of the main flagpole. I use the book “Sovereign of the Seas” by James Sephton to determine the correct height of each mast that was installed on the ship. Then, I calculated the height for the masts and the size and length for each yard to be used at this scale. Another spreadsheet includes the thread sizes for standing rigging.

Mast Length (mm) Yards Diameter (mm) Length (mm)
Bowsprit 450 Spirtsail 4.5 246
Spirtsail topmast 105.5 Spirtsail topsail 2.5 117
Fore 340 Fore 7 348
Fore topmast 217 Fore topsail 4 191.5
Fore topgallant 109.5 Fore Topgallant 3 88
Fore royal 76 Fore royal 2 44
Mainmast 360 Main 9 443.5
Main topmast 228.5 Main topsail 4 218
Main topgallant 109.5 Main topgallant 3 103
Main royal 86 Main royal 2 51.5
Missen 320 Missen 4 206
Missen topmast 152.5 Missen topsail 3 103
Missen topgallant 95.5 Missen topgallant 2 53.5
Crossjack 5.5 316.5

Many sizes of rigging thread will be used to complete the model. The sizes of rope were based upon the diameter of the main at the main deck level. I have calculated the sizes for this vessel base upon the period of it launch. Below is the table for the standing rigging in millimeters. Based on 12 mm Main Mast and 1:78 scale.

Bowsprit
Gammoning .797
Shrouds .498
Lanyards .199
Spirtsail topmast
backstay .498
Lanyards .199
Other Standing Rigging
Stay tackle pendant 1.155
Ratlines .155
Woolding .104
Fore Lower Mast
Tackle pendant .797
Tackles .398
Shrouds .797
Lanyards .398
Stay 1.594
Lanyard .498
Fore Topmast
Burton pendant .398
Tackles .199
Futtock staves .797
Futtock shrouds .359
Topmast shrouds .398
Lanyards .199
Backstay .398
Lanyard .199
Topmast stay .797
Lanyard .359
Foremast Topgallant
Futtock staves .398
Futtock shrouds .299
Topgallant shrouds .319
Lanyards .159
Backstay .319
Lanyard .159
Topgallant stay .398
Foremast Royal
Futtock staves .319
Futtock Shrouds .13
Backstay .159
Lanyard .080
Royal stay .199
Royal shrouds .159
Lanyard .080
Main Lower Mast
Tackle pendant .996
Tackles .498
Shrouds .996
Lanyards .498
Stay 1.99
Stay collar 1.49
Lanyard .598
Main Topmast
Burton pendant .498
Tackles .259
Futtock staves .996
Futtock shrouds .398
Topmast shrouds .498
Lanyards .259
Backstay .398
Lanyard .239
Topmast stay .996
Lanyard .398
Main Topgallant
Futtock staves .498
Futtock shrouds .299
Topgallant shrouds .319
Lanyards .159
Backstay .319
Lanyard .159
Topgallant stay .398
Main Royal
Royal staves .33
Futtock shrouds .13
Backstay .159
Lanyard .080
Royal stay .199
Royal shrouds .159
Lanyard .080
Missen Lower Mast
Shrouds .498
Lanyards .259
Stay .797
Lanyard .398
Missen Topmast
Futtock staves .498
Futtock shrouds .299
Topmast shrouds .319
Lanyards .159
Backstay .319
Lanyard .159
Topmast stay .398
Lanyard .199
Missen Topgallant
Futtock staves .199
Futtock Shrouds .199
Topgallent shrouds .239
Lanyard .119
Backstay .159
Lanyard .080
Topgallant stay .199
 

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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

<r>Very nice work. Did this model do for you what Charles I did for England? "Break the bank" <br/>
<E>:lol:</E> <br/>
<br/>
Jeff</r>
 
Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

Just about since the Amati fitting set was about $400.00 most of which I can not use but it had a lot of the items that were right or closer than what the Mantua parts were. Since I will use 22 sizes of rigging line and many sizes of blocks and dead-eye ranging from 2 mm to 10 mm, this will add considerably to the cost. However, when you see the difference in appearance of a properly rigged ship, it is worth it. I used 19 sizes of rigging line on the Le Soleil Royal and the result makes it not look super heavily rigged like using just the oversize kit parts would do.
 
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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

When I was installing the lower masts, I turned the lower Main mast and installed it using the 360 mm length. I then measured the height it was above the side rails and compared it with the height it should be on the plans. If i used the given length on the lower Fore mast and Missen mast, the Fore mast would be to high and the Missen would be two low. What I guessed is that they changed the location of where the masts anchored and forgot to adjust the lengths to accommodate the 2008 revision. What worked for me was to use 310 for the Fore mast and 340 for the Missen. They also said that the Missen was a 10 mm masts tapered to 6 mm but the deck was designed only for an 8 mm mast which seems right. Since the dead-eyes are mounted at the level of the main deck, it is possible that the mast could have be 10 mm at that level and tapered to 8 mm at the upper level. Thus, the dead-eyes might still be right. However, a century later when the Missen dead-eyes were moved higher up on the back end, then the dead-eyes would have been 4 mm.
 
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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

<t>Hi Gary, was just looking at your Sovereign again and noticed that in photo 047a, of the stern, that your stern lantern, centre, is at a tilt, accidental? or did it receive a bump?<br/>
Regards<br/>
Eric</t>
 
Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

Thanks Eric for noticing. The lantern does get bumped and the little area that there is to glue does not seem to hold enough. I will have to glue it as the last item before putting it in the case and making sure it is straight. It is in a vulnerable location to be sure.
Thanks Dennis. I am still awaiting for two more Pegasus decorations to put on where they are missing. Thanks goodness for Ages of Sail. They have really been great at being able to get parts from the foreign companies. Mantua is very slow but at least the do eventually send the items requested.
 
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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

I have got back to work on my model and now have over 700 hours and 3,800 parts on her. There are 5 dead eye per side and they are 2.5 mm.
 

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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

The English used hounds and cheeks to hold up the crows nest during this time. Also, the Burton pendant and tackle and tackle pendents went on before shrouds. I am using the Syren Ship Model Company after market blocks that far exceed the Mantua blocks. These blocks have holes on the top and bottom so that it looks like they have sheaves and are shaped like the real ones rather than squared like Mantua's.
 

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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

Thanks a lot Dennis. At this stage, I am on my own since the mast and yards are all wrong. The rigging is grossly wrong. Thus, everything requires research and figuring out how to model it correctly.
 
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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

<t>OMG Gary! what a headache that will be. the average kit builder would just go ahead and not realise that there could be gross inaccuracies in their model. Is there anywhere in America you would be able to get accurate info or would you have to contact England?<br/>
Wishing you good luck <br/>
Regards<br/>
Eric</t>
 
Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

I have made several changes already based upon the book "Sovereign of the Seas" by James Sephton. The rigging is covered in "Seventeenth Century Rigging" by R. C. Anderson, " The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War" by James Lee and "Historic Ship Models" by Wolfram zu Mondfeld". All of these books were written by people that spent years doing research and lots of money going to get the information where it was available. We are blessed to be in an age where books like this provide information that would be almost impossible for us to get otherwise. If we had to get the information like they did, we would only be able to have time to build one model in our lifetime because life and work really limits our spare time.
 
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Re: Mantua Sovereign of Seas

<t>This is a very impressive build Gary. I'm always amazed by the depth of your knowledge of ships and modeling. You are right that the vast amount of information available to us nowadays is staggering compared to just a few decades ago. Some people, however, are just talented. I have always been interested in modeling and before I attempted to build a wooden ship I built several plastic models. I am fortunate to be in a position to splurge on my hobby. I will continue to follow your work and seek you council.<br/>
Regards<br/>
Mike</t>
 
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