Model Ship World attacked by hackers

[mberg]

I can't understand them going after a hobby like this.

Based on what I understand, it wasn't anything specifically directed toward the hobby it was a direct hit to the web host. It just happened to unfortunately be the host that MSW used, and many other sites.

Think of it as an apartment building (the web host) and MSW rents an apartment (as well as many other various websites). It's akin to the landlords master key getting stolen. Every tenant's unit is vulnerable, regardless of who the burglar was actually after.

 

[CoastHiker]

Now is the time for SoS to reach out to every MSW member and welcome them to join the rest of us at SoS for as long as they wish. I'm betting those "50,000" members will turn out to be less than 500 members who have posted in the last month, but I think if they get to know us, they won't be leaving very soon.

For those of us who posted on MSW and spent a considerable time on our build logs- why would we post fresh logs here on SOS? Many of us at MSW were working on kits, thoroughly enjoying it and being proud of our what we were achieving- and enjoying discussing it with our fellow builders. Yet here on SOS, some of the most knowledgeable and experienced builders eloquently pour scorn on us for not being naval experts or for not building from scratch, find fault in every detail for not building "high quality models" and sneer at us for "just doing paint by numbers".
Having got to know the community here over the last few months, there is no way I'd post my kit-build log here.

But on another point- I doubt even 500 members would have posted in the last month. I'd guess more like 50. I have wondered myself on a both groups with tens of thousands of members- and only a few dozen contributors- why so few people post.

 

[Bob Cleek]

Bob, I can’t say I’m surprised by your post, but I don’t have any desire to get into a back-and-forth argument about it.

Look, I hear you — and yes, most of us know the history. Nobody's pretending it doesn't exist. But there's something worth separating out here: helping fellow modelers who just lost years of their work is not the same as giving a thumbs up to how their forum was run. Those are two completely different things, and I think it's worth keeping that distinction in mind.
And let's be honest with ourselves for a second — something like this could have happened to SoS just as easily. That's not a comfortable thought, but it's a real one. Whatever happened between our communities in the past, this really isn't the time to drag it back out. The people who lost their build logs, their photos, their years of contributions; they're not the administration. They're just modelers, same as us. They deserve a bit of human decency right now, not a front-row seat to old grudges being aired out, IMHO.

Let's be the humans....this is what is actually required... no less, no more.

It appears your post betrays a desire not for a "back-and-forth argument," but rather just for a "back argument."

You do hear me. We are in complete and exact agreement. What we need to do is exactly as you say: "But there's something worth separating out here: helping fellow modelers who just lost years of their work is not the same as giving a thumbs up to how their forum was run. Those are two completely different things, and I think it's worth keeping that distinction in mind."

The people who lost their build logs, their photos, their years of contributions; they're not the administration. They're just modelers, same as us. They deserve a bit of human decency right now ...

That's exactly what I said, or at least tried to say. "The MSW management has got nothing coming from SoS, but we should welcome the MSW members to join SoS and share the same resources and information here at SoS as they they had access to at MSW."

I also agree that MSW members might not need "a front-row seat to old grudges being aired out, IMHO." It is your opinion. I'm not sufficiently invested in the outcome to have formed any fixed opinion of my own on this subject. As a victim of one of their "Nights of the Long Knives" group purges, blocked and banned without any explanation, I myself find comfort and affirmation in hearing the stories of so many others of whose existence I was completely unaware. Frankly, it appears to be much worse and more extensive that I previously imagined. Indeed, I've just learned that we are at least fellow victims, if not comrades in arms, in the MSW managements war on scratch builders.

Here's how I see it: There's no point in "flogging the poodle" about the way MSW has been run. It's their sandbox and they can do what they want with it. Enough of a point has been made that the MSW management are bad actors. Overemphasizing the point is counter-productive. To do so runs the risk of galvanizing opposition in the people we want to join us. It's like bombing the crap out of Iran. Everybody knows the government are bad guys and thinks the man on the street would be happy to see the government replaced, but when you blow up his home, he's suddenly a rabid opponent of those who might promote regime change. That said, MSW is no more at the moment and there's no point in encouraging or enabling its return. None. At all.

All SoS needs to do is open its doors wide and call out to the MSW members to "come on over." When they do, I'm betting MSW becomes a non-issue because people will realize that nobody needs it or its self-aggrandizing "hall monitor" fascist management.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

For those of us who posted on MSW and spent a considerable time on our build logs- why would we post fresh logs here on SOS? Many of us at MSW were working on kits, thoroughly enjoying it and being proud of our what we were achieving- and enjoying discussing it with our fellow builders. Yet here on SOS, some of the most knowledgeable and experienced builders eloquently pour scorn on us for not being naval experts or for not building from scratch, find fault in every detail for not building "high quality models" and sneer at us for "just doing paint by numbers".
Having got to know the community here over the last few months, there is no way I'd post my kit-build log here.

don't let personal opinions like the one above bother you SoS from the start always allowed opinions of all kinds nothing wrong with kits building and 99% of builders here build kits so you are in good company so please carry on

 

[Bob Cleek]

The current year is 2026, not 2027.... unless I've taken a lot longer to lay the Muscongus bay garboard strake than I thought. (BTW, that's the exact date that the MSW site went down)

As for your question that remains; I don't think you understand that websites pay a hosting company to host their site. The host is the custodian of the data and software, and subsequent patches. The host is the one that failed in this instance. As for the backups, that is easily explained as well. The second drive was still digitally linked to the primary drive so it could be backed up or restored easily. This was a preventative measure to avoid drive failures (which is what happened in 2013). As Jim mentioned, the same thing could've happened to SOS...

Ooops! My, my, time does fly when you're having fun and it flies faster and faster when you're getting old. My bad!

Your right. I took down the post saying they knew about their vulnerability for a year. Chuck it up to another "AI error." As I posted earlier, I queried whether MSW's exact statement of what happened was true and got the unequivocal response I posted saying that no such hack as was described had been reported as occurring in the applicable time period.

It's not as blatantly untrue as it initially seemed. Their explanation seems valid after all, but the fact that the management of MSW are triple-distilled jerks remains, although it isn't really all that relevant at the moment. The server could have been struck by lightning for all the management matters. What's important at the moment is indeed that we welcome the MSW members to come on over to SoS and find what they thought they lost.

 

[Bob Cleek]

While there are certainly many excellent and unique build logs here, there also were many at MSW that are now gone. Including many of the sorts of research-intensive, unique scratch-builds that you've elsewhere claimed to champion. I'm not looking to argue which site is better or whatever, but it's indisputable that this is a loss for the broader ship modeling community.

I have to say, it's a heck of a look to follow up "nobody is carrying a grudge" with "it's about getting even" a couple sentences later. As someone who relatively recently joined SOS and has now lost quite a few posts and finds the prospects of re-uploading old build logs pretty daunting, I am glad to see that many members here are being welcoming.


Is it 2027 already? Time really does fly....

Yeah, time flies when you're having fun and when you're getting old. My bad. I would have failed on of those cognitive tests when they ask "What year is it?" Good thing I'm not running for President!

You're right. There were some very excellent build logs that were monumental which are now gone. Tosti's Young America was one example. He's published it all in a book already, though, so it's still available in that form. Johann's La Creole is among one of the greater losses as well, although he began posting it in SoS a while ago, so there are portions that are preserved here. There were some very well-done kit build logs that supplemented instructions well, too. The point is that those information sources may no longer exist on the MSW platform, but much of the information itself is readily available elsewhere if it's really needed. That's why I would say that while it might be inconvenient to some and a great disappointment to those who spent so much energy posting the information, in the grand scheme of things, it's not as much of "a loss to the broader ship modeling community" as it would seem at first blush. There's a whole lot more to the "broader ship modeling community" than what's on the internet. In fact, I'd hazard the guess that there are more really good serious scale ship modelers who don't post anything on the internet that there are those who do. There could well be more incorrect information about scale ship modeling posted on the internet than good information. Scale ship modeling generally reached the limits of its maturity in the early 1900's with the "builders" or "boardroom" models. There really hasn't been anything more to know since then save CAD and 3D printing technology if one wishes to consider that qualifying as fine art scale modeling. Anything anybody wants to know about scale ship modeling is in a book somewhere. Often, it's a book written fifty years ago and yet still in print. So, while I consider the loss of the MSW database an inconvenience to some, I really don't see it as any sort of unrecoverable loss.

There isn't anything incongruous between "nobody is carrying a grudge" and "it's about getting even." These are two distinct concepts. "Carrying a grudge" means having a persistent feeling of ill will or resentment resulting from a past insult or injury. That's a burden that's never worth carrying and why there's no point in it. "Getting even" means "rectifying an injustice." "Justifying" is what one does when they make the margins on a printed page even on each side as in "justified margins." "Make even" means "to justify injustice."

 

[pugwash]

I really hope this thread becomes about mourning all the loss of that wealth of information we just lost as a community and moving forward rather than airing past grudges and reopening old wounds.

I agree, but a hurt can last a long time.

Until it was established what had happened at MSW, I was getting very frustrated all week, trying to log on; their content had always been a useful alternative take on the hobby, one which I shall miss.

 

[Bryian]

I have been reluctant to post about this, but feel I also need to chime in. I was banned over at MSW by the narcissistic administration. I had over 4,000 posts and multiple build logs there.
I still have friends that are members over there, and they tell me they will not reconstruct their build logs again. It’s too much work and they can’t be bothered.

 

[Dematosdg]

For those of us who posted on MSW and spent a considerable time on our build logs- why would we post fresh logs here on SOS? Many of us at MSW were working on kits, thoroughly enjoying it and being proud of our what we were achieving- and enjoying discussing it with our fellow builders. Yet here on SOS, some of the most knowledgeable and experienced builders eloquently pour scorn on us for not being naval experts or for not building from scratch, find fault in every detail for not building "high quality models" and sneer at us for "just doing paint by numbers".
Having got to know the community here over the last few months, there is no way I'd post my kit-build log here.

Unfortunately, i have to disagree with your comments.

I joined SOS with just only 3, not complex at all Artesania Latina built kits. Since then, my knowledge has grown here at SOS and I feel proud, when someone contact me asking "How you did this or that" on one of my builds.

I get CONSTANT HELP from SOS members, independently of their expertise level. You can get that feeling by just reading a few build logs.

At SOS there are always someone that will spend his/her time teaching or providing technical info or any other needed info that can help the modeler.

Independently of the complexity of the build in hand, I have never ever seen or experienced..... AT SOS this : Yet here on SOS, some of the most knowledgeable and experienced builders eloquently pour scorn on us for not being naval experts or for not building from scratch, find fault in every detail for not building "high quality models" and sneer at us for "just doing paint by numbers".

Unfortunately, there isn't any person, or forum that is perfect. And l feel very bad that you have experienced something I have never heard or experienced at SOS.

Daniel

 

[Jimsky]

For those of us who posted on MSW and spent a considerable time on our build logs- why would we post fresh logs here on SOS? Many of us at MSW were working on kits, thoroughly enjoying it and being proud of our what we were achieving- and enjoying discussing it with our fellow builders. Yet here on SOS, some of the most knowledgeable and experienced builders eloquently pour scorn on us for not being naval experts or for not building from scratch, find fault in every detail for not building "high quality models" and sneer at us for "just doing paint by numbers".
Having got to know the community here over the last few months, there is no way I'd post my kit-build log here.

But on another point- I doubt even 500 members would have posted in the last month. I'd guess more like 50. I have wondered myself on a both groups with tens of thousands of members- and only a few dozen contributors- why so few people post.

I hear your hesitation..., but I do want to push back, because I don't think what you've seen reflects who we are as a community. Yes, we have some elite, experienced builders here ; as such, experienced builders tend to have strong opinions or whatever you may call it. That's just how it goes. But those voices don't speak for everyone - not even close. Plenty of us build kits, enjoy the process for what it is, and genuinely enjoy seeing others do the same, regardless of their skill level. It wouldn't be fair to judge the whole room by a few loud voices, IMHO

Most people here are just happy to share what they're working on, pick up something new along the way, and cheer others on. That's really what this place is about. Whether you post or not is entirely your call, but I'd hate for a handful of experiences to close that door before you've had a chance to see the rest of us.

 

[oldflyer]

When I login in- I glance over at membership - always happy that it keeps climbing - that said this might be a concern - in terms of site safety????

Hmmm - right now 3000+ guests -

Regards,

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

right now 3000+ guests -

When I have looked - most are web spiders and crawlers.

The search engine AI use MSW - a lot - I wonder how that is going to turn out.
On the other hand - perhaps some part of the lost answers are still out there.

experienced builders tend to have strong opinions or whatever you may call it. That's just how it goes. But those voices don't speak for everyone - not even close.

It is more like 1%-2% of the whole. It is not even about anything "elite" - which is an ad hominem. It is about admiring and celebrating the skilled and gifted and trying to encourage others to follow in their path. Those who actually DO seem pointedly disinterested in sharing their skills and knowledge.

For those of us who posted on MSW and spent a considerable time on our build logs- why would we post fresh logs here on SOS? Many of us at MSW were working on kits, thoroughly enjoying it and being proud of our what we were achieving- and enjoying discussing it with our fellow builders. Yet here on SOS, some of the most knowledgeable and experienced builders eloquently pour scorn on us for not being naval experts or for not building from scratch, find fault in every detail for not building "high quality models" and sneer at us for "just doing paint by numbers".
Having got to know the community here over the last few months, there is no way I'd post my kit-build log here.

You were comfortable at MSW because the site was actively engineered for it to be that. There is much profit to be made by keeping those who are kit focused where they are and shielding them from any ideas or facts contrary to what kit advertising copy writers wish is to be believed.
This was also said at MSW - until the pogrom to identify and silence and/or ban those who encourage scratch building removed any vocal posters and cowed the remaining who feel the same but do not post about it.

Has any of this been said on a kit build log here?
It is my understanding that kit forums here are builder friendly.
If you only live in the kit build forums you will not even hear any Cassandra voices.

What is it about what you are calling "scorn" is untrue? It shatters illusions about what is the actual objective value of any kit. This will save being shocked by the reception of product outside the bubble. It is not "scorn" at all. It is showing a way to achieve accolades in the real world - if the skill and research warrant it.

 

[Jimsky]

It is more like 1%-2% of the whole. It is not even about anything "elite" - which is an ad hominem. It is about admiring and celebrating the skilled and gifted and trying to encourage others to follow in their path. Those who actually DO seem pointedly disinterested in sharing their skills and knowledge.

I'd gently push back on that framing. Labeling a small group as 'the skilled and gifted', even with good intentions, quietly implies that everyone else is somehow less capable or less willing to contribute. And I don't think that's actually true of what we see here.
Most members, whatever their experience level, are willing to help, share, and encourage. That's not exclusive to a select few. Skill in this hobby isn't some fixed quality you either have, or you don't — it grows over time, usually with exactly the kind of encouragement this community offers at its best. Not sure how many times I have to mention this in my past posts. Drawing a line between a 'gifted' minority and the rest doesn't elevate anyone; it just creates a division that doesn't need to exist here and makes people think twice before jumping in.

And honestly? There's no single right way to enjoy building models. Members find their own path, take inspiration from whoever resonates with them, and that's exactly how it should be.

 

[johnlattanzio]

This is why Our Ships of Scale attracts all hobbyists and in my opinion, the best.
No ship snobbery, everyone helping and encouraging each other.
From the total newcomer to the experienced ship builder, there is always someone to help and give advice.
Fantastic crew here, from admin to laymen.

I agree 100%.

As someone new to ships (but a modeller for many years) I found both forums. I joined both. But I was somehow drawn to SoS and that is where I spent most of my time. I did see ads regularly on MSW, for various things. I even subscribed to NRG and their magazines. But there did seem to be a commercial aspect that I did not understand and which just did not sit properly with me. I treated it, and fellow forum users, as normal but found I was spending most of my time on SoS.

Where, I must say, I have been enthusiastically welcomed and helped!

Manty thanks to all!

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

I'd gently push back on that framing. Labeling a small group as 'the skilled and gifted', even with good intentions,

I guess I cannot phrase what I intend to say correctly. I am coming from an instruction point of view. I have no wish or intent to label anyone here as being "the skilled and gifted" that I am describing - certainly not me. My best fit is - reference librarian.. Just intending to present a bench mark to shoot for. The old insult - Those who can do. Those who can't teach. can at least be taken to mean that you do not have to be it - to teach it.

There is no shortage of kit advertisement and encouragement. A few voices from "Old School" encouraging scratch as a being worth exploring as an alternative to kits should not be treated as a threat. If our criticisms of some kit orthodoxy is untrue - we should be called on it. If they are true and that makes for discomfort all the shouting in the world will not change it. A safe "bubble" can be created - was created - and all is cool just as long as it is inside the "bubble".

 

[Bob Cleek]

For those of us who posted on MSW and spent a considerable time on our build logs- why would we post fresh logs here on SOS? Many of us at MSW were working on kits, thoroughly enjoying it and being proud of our what we were achieving- and enjoying discussing it with our fellow builders. Yet here on SOS, some of the most knowledgeable and experienced builders eloquently pour scorn on us for not being naval experts or for not building from scratch, find fault in every detail for not building "high quality models" and sneer at us for "just doing paint by numbers".
Having got to know the community here over the last few months, there is no way I'd post my kit-build log here.

But on another point- I doubt even 500 members would have posted in the last month. I'd guess more like 50. I have wondered myself on a both groups with tens of thousands of members- and only a few dozen contributors- why so few people post.

For those of us who posted on MSW and spent a considerable time on our build logs- why would we post fresh logs here on SOS?

A rhetorical question? Excellent point. Why would they? Who cares?

Well, first, for some, there's the ego involvement and the positive reinforcement of multiple "atta-boys" that motivate them to keep working on their build. Nothing wrong with that. Entirely understandable and a good solution to a common modeler's challenge. Some have builds that really are of great interest to a wider than usual audience, for example, a first build log of a newly issued kit. For others who have retained their own build log files, posting them anew on SoS is a small effort and worth the investment of time to do so. Otherwise, there's really no reason to repost MSW build logs here, especially if there are already build logs of the same kit posted fhere. As for scratch building logs, some are really practicums that others are following and should be continued for the sake of the other builds following along with them. Some scratch builds are highly instructional for the sake of their detailed construction, such as Johann's La Creole, and so on.

The bottom line is that if someone wants to post a build log, by all means do so. If not, that's perfectly acceptable, too.

Many of us at MSW were working on kits, thoroughly enjoying it and being proud of our what we were achieving- and enjoying discussing it with our fellow builders. Yet here on SOS, some of the most knowledgeable and experienced builders eloquently pour scorn on us for not being naval experts or for not building from scratch, find fault in every detail for not building "high quality models" and sneer at us for "just doing paint by numbers".

There's something for everyone here on SoS, but unlike MSW, SoS has a lot more of a "tell it like it is" culture. On MSW there's lots of patting the newbies on the head and telling them they're just wonderful because the real purpose of MSW as defined by the present management is getting newbies to buy more of their kits and aftermarket parts. The management knows that there's no money for them to make in scratch building. Not a cent. This is why MSW's management is so focused on kits and keeping their membership buying and building them.

I guess you weren't ever in a high-pressure military training program. They scream and yell at the trainees, not because they want to abuse them, but because they want to train them as quickly and effectively as possible. When "some of the most knowledgeable and experienced builders eloquently pour scorn on us for not being naval experts or for not building from scratch, find fault in every detail for not building high quality models' and sneer at us for `just doing paint by numbers," it's because you are loved and they want you to be better. There is a natural progression from assembling kits to scratch building models of the modeler's own design and subject matter choice. It takes a big leap of confidence to go from assembling kits to doing your own thing freehand. All of what you see as abuse at the moment is only just encouragement, however mistaken that teaching method may be. Toughen up, Buttercup! This isn't the Special Olympics where everybody gets a participation trophy. Those guys will make a fine arts high-quality scale ship modeler out of you in short order if you listen and learn and follow their advice no matter how crusty those old farts may be.

Having got to know the community here over the last few months, there is no way I'd post my kit-build log here.

If you can't endure and make good use of the criticism of more experienced modelers, however ungracefully it may be offered, it's highly unlikely that you will progress as quickly and as far as a scale model ship builder as you might have otherwise were you to have taken that criticism to heart. One way to mitigate the impact of this shortcoming is to watch them "abuse" others in the manner you describe and consider the validity of that criticism without having to submit yourself to enduring it personally. That's a wimpy copout, but when your a wimp. ya gotta do what the wimps do. Nevertheless, those with the introspective acuity and fortitude to learn from that teaching method will likely profit greatly from patiently enduring it.

Enjoy the journey and all of its rites of passage. Ship modeling is essentially the dedicated pursuit of excellence by beating one's personal best. It requires little more than one's doing the common thing uncommonly well.

 

[Jimsky]

The old insult - Those who can do. Those who can't teach. can at least be taken to mean that you do not have to be it - to teach it.

That saying gets thrown around a lot, but it really doesn't hold up when you actually sit with it - especially in this hobby.
Some of the most capable builders I've come across (not mentioning the names) are also the ones most willing to stop, explain what they're doing, and bring others along with them. Teaching isn't what you fall back on when you can't build; it's rather an entirely different skill, and frankly, not everyone who builds well can do it, IMHO.

You don't need to be the absolute best at something to help someone else get better. That's not how knowledge works. And writing off people who teach as somehow second-rate doesn't just miss the point - it discourages exactly the kind of generosity that makes a community like us worth being part of.

There is no shortage of kit advertisement and encouragement. A few voices from "Old School" encouraging scratch as a being worth exploring as an alternative to kits should not be treated as a threat. If our criticisms of some kit orthodoxy is untrue - we should be called on it. If they are true and that makes for discomfort all the shouting in the world will not change it. A safe "bubble" can be created - was created - and all is cool just as long as it is inside the "bubble".

The issue isn't that Old School voices exist. It's when Old School becomes the only acceptable school, when a particular way of building stops being one valid approach among many and starts being treated as the standard everything else gets measured against. That's a different thing entirely, and that's worth calling out. And look, if the criticisms of certain kit orthodoxy are off base, say so. Make the case. That's a conversation worth having. But if there's some truth in them and it makes people uncomfortable, no amount of noise is going to make that truth go away.

A community can absolutely create a safe, encouraging space, and there's real value in that. But a bubble that only stays comfortable by keeping certain conversations out isn't really a community finding its confidence. It's a community avoiding one. What do ya think?

 

[Roger Pellett]

Far from being restricted to the “elite few” scratch building is the most democratic form of the hobby. With kits starting at $100 and sometimes costing over $1000 not everyone can or wants to spend disposable income on a kit. And, having spent the $$$ how many would be modelers become too worried about messing up their expenditure to even begin the kit. So, it sits on their shelf.

There’s a guy here on SOS who is scratch building a beautiful example of a lobster smack enhanced with some serious research on the type. Within the past 3-5 years he began ship modeling by scratch building local Mexican working watercraft from locally available materials. Tools were little more than an Xacto knife.

A piece of Value Bin pine lumber at our local Menards costs $2.50 and a bottle of glue about $5.00. Try building something with it. You might be surprised what you can accomplish.

Roger

 

[Jimsky]

Far from being restricted to the “elite few” scratch building is the most democratic form of the hobby. With kits starting at $100 and sometimes costing over $1000 not everyone can or wants to spend disposable income on a kit. And, having spent the $$$ how many would be modelers become too worried about messing up their expenditure to even begin the kit. So, it sits on their shelf.

There’s a guy here on SOS who is scratch building a beautiful example of a lobster smack enhanced with some serious research on the type. Within the past 3-5 years he began ship modeling by scratch building local Mexican working watercraft from locally available materials. Tools were little more than an Xacto knife.

A piece of Value Bin pine lumber at our local Menards costs $2.50 and a bottle of glue about $5.00. Try building something with it. You might be surprised what you can accomplish.

Roger

Roger, with all my respect to you, we are not discussing which way to build better, scratch versus kist. Please..., we have had enough of this in our past discussions.

 

[Bob Cleek]

There’s a guy here on SOS who is scratch building a beautiful example of a lobster smack enhanced with some serious research on the type. Within the past 3-5 years he began ship modeling by scratch building local Mexican working watercraft from locally available materials. Tools were little more than an Xacto knife.

Not only did he build original models of vessel types of his own choosing, but through his research and modeling he has created important and valuable contributions to the historical record. While people throw around the term "museum quality" with reckless abandon, this scratch builder's seemingly simple and relatively small models are in fact important works that are numbered among the few extant models of these vessel types and thereby are truly worthy of preservation and exhibition in a museum that addresses these types of indigenous watercraft. At the same time, for thousands of dollars more, any number of models of Victory and Constitution and the rest of the popular kit model "usual suspects" were built. None contributed anything new to the historical record (and in any event quite possibly exhibit multiple historical inaccuracies) and none offered anything of real value beyond their serving as an object of their builder's personal pride and perhaps exhibiting some questionable decorative value. This isn't to say the kits shouldn't have been built. They have their purposes, but the reality is that there is a real qualitative difference between the two and therein lies the difference between a ship model kit and a "high quality fine art scale ship model." Nevertheless, the kit manufacturing industry continues to create a false impression of what is a truly valuable scale ship model in an effort to keep beginning modelers buying kit after kit as if that was the only point and the pinnacle of the craft.