Model Ship World Forum Crash

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trippwj

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I hope it is alright to post this here. I suspect many of the members are also members at MSW.

As you may have noticed, MSW went offline yesterday. According to the Site Admins, it was not a result of the just completed upgrade to a new forum platform but rather a catastrophic crash of the server hard drive. I asked them for permission to cross post updates and here is the response from Chuck:

Chuck Passaro: We will be back up and running in a few days hopefully. We will most likely have a clean slate. As all content was lost we will need the good will, patience and help of all our members to rebuild the site from the ground up. Everyone will have to register again and hopefully start building what will once again become the best model ship forum on the planet. We appreciate everyone's support. Let me state without any reservations...Model Ship world will not go away. It will just take some time to get back on its feet.

Will let you know when I learn more - following the updates on Facebook right now.
 
I think before crash I see new design, it was a little confusing for me.But i did not know about crash.

barba
 
That's rediculous. No backup from the old site, and no backup from the initial state of the new site. I have to get this off my chest: That's STUPID!

Is it run from a home server or something ... I can't imagine that, considering the amount of data and the speed of data transfer. This means it is at a service provider's. They should make backups from databases and directory structures, at least once a month. I've learned the hard way. Lost half a year of programming work with a disk crash (about 10 years ago) Now I have several backups. 2 on disk (1 server, 1 PC/1 laptop), older work on cd/dvd

The loss at MSW doesn't hurt me as much as it does others, for I've only a minor unimportant build, but the text some of them had ... like EdT, Remcohe, DanVad, Mark(Taylor) Donnie, and all those others ... AUCH! I feel sorry for them. I still can't believe no backup is available ...

P.s. I don't have facebook or other 'anti'social media accounts, so please keep us informed
 
I back up everything that I want to keep all the time on a couple of external hard drives. Amazing that this sort of thing can be allowed to happen!
It would be interesting to know how large the total files were on MSW - was it measured in Gbs or Tbs? Where are the files stored on these forums? I have often wondered. Is there a gigantic computer somewhere with all the data, or is it spread around lots of smaller ones? - it must be somewhere physical!
Bob
 
You mean the 'anti'social media Popeye? I find it communication programs/platforms. It has nothing to do with social. I can't see you, can't hear you, can't sense you. I can't seize you up either. I miss the 'body language', eye contact. So tell me where is the social part. It's nothing more than a phone. Is the one on the 'other side' really the person you think it is, or you presume it is.

Anyways. Answering the backup questions from shipbuilder:
It would be interesting to know how large the total files were on MSW - was it measured in Gbs or Tbs? Where are the files stored on these forums?
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File storage, maybe the pictures, but you've got a fair chance that those were in a database as were the topics with the replies. At the most a couple of Gb's, most of which would be in a single database.
Is there a gigantic computer somewhere with all the data, or is it spread around lots of smaller ones?
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Data is not spread across multiple smaller systems. It's in a server, and a server may vary in size. It can be the housing of a PC (which I use at home for e.g. mail server, development of sites/software) to a frame the size of storage racks. I presume the first is out of the question, as it would be to expensive for a Service Provider to buy/store/maintain the number of servers required. A server can contain multiple disks (as does a PC, but a server is more stable). A disk size ... well you know the current sizes. Those disks can be put in raid, which means the disk in the raid configuration is seen as one. It serves as a backup sometimes too in this setup. If a disk crashes in raid setup, it can be replaced, without loss of data. Sometimes multiple disks in a raid configuration crash, and than the sh.t hits the fan: You've lost all your data. That is what may have happened at MSW. Another option is that it wasn't a raid configuration and a single disk in the server crashed, or some other hardware burned out and made the disk(s) crash.

I don't know how the SP for MSW has their configuration for a website. Where I work, the software for the site is on one/multiple servers, and the data is on a specific database server. Files created by the site are saved on a Network File System (NFS) server. All those servers, even those on which the data/programs hardly ever change, are in a backup procedure (daily!). So what happened at MSW will/'shall' never happen. You may have lost a day of data input at the most, but that is often traceable in the logs.

Hope this clarifies some of it,
 
Thanks for the info Carl,
It makes it a bit clearer. I was surprised that the files would only be a few Gbs though!, but if the images are all fairly small, a few Kbs, I suppose it all figures. That makes it even more surprising that it was all lost - it could have been kept on an external hard drive at minimal cost. It doesn't affect me. I requested all my input and tutorials to be deleted from MSW some months ago, but they just ignored me, although a number of them were deleted. It has all gone now anyway! It will be interesting to see what happens when they come back!
Bob
 
Sjors,

I do not agree with the learning curve. A forum is filled with the efforts of members, whether it is text or images, that doesn't matter. It isn't the property of the forum owner. He needs to take care of it, that is what he stands for. If the forum is software as with SOS and MSW then he needs to take care of it too. If that means he needs to make daily backups, as the data changes a lot - edited or added - that too is his responsibility.
We all know that hard disks can crash, that motherboards deteriorate, as do memory modules and other electronic components. Thus data can be lost. That is why backups were invented. There is absolutely no excuse what so ever to accept it just as that it happened. That learning curve has been passed decades ago!
 
Bob
I was surprised that the files would only be a few Gbs though!
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A Gb = 1.000.000.000 bites. Say the average image on MSW was 385 Kb (385.000 bites) That would mean you can save approximately 2600 images on 1 Gb. The forum software itself is 11 Mb (11.000.000 bites). A normal site has about 6 to 10 Gb. Let's say for each image you need another image size for the text in each topic.

You can do the calculus to, but here it is (very rough): 2 x 385KB = 770Kb per image per topic. We have e.g. 10Gb space. So: 10Gb - 11Mb = 9.989.000.000 B / 770.000 B = 12972727 images and text (I'm talking large text blocks, 1 B4 page is approximately 1.000 b) available on your forum.

(Haven't done that in some time, nice arithmetics)
 
Carl,
Thanks for further info. Probably most of the files were a lot less than 385Kb anyway. Mine were in the region of 90Kb and they still looked pretty good. I also learned years ago that regular back-ups were the most sensible thing to do and it has saved me a lot of work over the years.
Bob
 
Hey Popeye - you know - nothing is 100% bullet proof. Period. SOS is not bullet proof. Anything can happen. Hacks happen all the time, power goes down, anything electronic - it is what it is as they say. MSW did more than I can imagine in helping the modeling community weld together. It seems to me that they should be able to take their HDD to a company that specializes in data recovery - but I have heard data recovery can be very expensive.
 
Popeye,
I'm with you, for there are a lot of wonderfull people at MSW, and I to miss the contact, even in this simple way through a forum. I looked forward to read their messages, and not knowing if I every 'see' them again leaves me with a certain emptyness

Donnie,
You're so right: Nothing is bullet proof. We should keep that in mind with the things we do and provide.
MSW was a great place, and might be again, as it was also very widely known.

HDD data recovery IS very expensive. The main problem they have to deal with is the fact that most of the data resided in a database, which makes it almost a disaster to recover ...
 
admin said:
I guess it is time for me to step in here. First of all, I am not a competitive person. However, for someone to make a statement about a particular site being or going to be the best in the world just makes me feel uneasy. I am sorry if I feel that way, but ...I never make those claims. We should all be a part of helping the modeling community (no matter what ship forum).


I am very happy to have each one of you. The SOS forum friends, the struggles, the hardships, the aging eyes, the aging feeble hands, are a part of modeling just like the wood and the glue. I take the holistic approach of modeling. Everyone here is important to me for them to feel successful in what they do. I get emails from all of you quite frequently asking for help.

Now, let me say that as far as Ships of Scale "proper" that I have a script that automatically performs a backup a few times a day AND I also keep a past 10 DAY backup on an enterprise system. I also pull (Download) the ENTIRE SITE at least try to on a monthly basis onto my own personal instruments of storage mediums.

I am not sure how MSW handles their forum. But I can tell you that it has to be a horrible experience for them. I really feel for them and to the ones managing their system(s).

If you really want to know. SOS is part of a cluster platform with many servers work as one and load is distributed between all of the servers in the network. Such architecture offers better productivity and performance than single-server platforms.

It is a fact – clustered servers work more efficiently compared to single-server platforms. The load is distributed intelligently between several servers, thus improving speed and performance.

It does NOT cost much at all to run a forum. As a matter of fact, I am afraid that some of you all would be outraged as the little cost involved if you do business with an enterprise system.

Yes, I know that SOS "board" had a few road bumps in the past three weeks, but that was a change over of an enterprise system that in this particular case was being handled by professional IT.

the error that some experienced yesterday - well, that was something (mistake) on my own part. But, I did get it up and running again. I say that will a huge amount of humility -- it is a humbling experience to go to the site only to see errors. Believe me. Its not about me - its about you the modeler.

Another element about SOS is that we employ "notifications" of which you get an email that states that someone has make a reply. This is a really nice feature. I have also raised the limit of the file size and the image size up to 900 pixels wide so that people with aging eyes will not have to strain to see the image.

Your Admin is always available --period -- It might take a while (as I do have a full time job), but I am always here and available for anything.

I hate to see MSW go over the edge, no one wants to see this or experience it. but, I will say again, I just don't like boasting statements about who is better than the other guy.

So, therefore, please, lets not compare one forum to another - and just enjoy what we do. I am VERY grateful to have all of you to be a part of SOS !!!!

Sincerely,
Donnie Driskell
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I HAVE NOT BEEN BY SOS IN A VERY LONG TIME. BUT VERY NICELY SAID DONNIE................I AGREE WHOLE HEARTERLY!!!

THERE IS A SIMILAR THREAD GOING ON AT MSB.....I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF WITH MY BUILDS NOW, BUT A SUGGESTION I OFFER TO YOU ALL IS. MY THREADS ARE CREATED ON MS WORD THEN I SIMPLY COPY AND PASTE, THEN SAVE TO MY EXTERNAL DRIVE. WHAT HAPPEN TO MSW HAPPENS IN THE DATA WORLD NO ONE IS IMUNE TO IT, BUT I NOTICED A LOT OF YOU ARE HURTING FOR THE VERY INFORMITIVE BUILD LOGS THAT THEY HAD. MS WORD WILL PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING. I HAVE ALSO COPIED N PASTED VERY INFORMITIVE STUFF FROM MSW AND IT NOW RESIDES IN MY PERSONEL FILES FOR FUTURE USE. ......YOU ALL CAN DO THE SAME.

NOT ONLY DO BACLUPS WORK, BUT YOU CAN START YOUR OWN BLOGS, OR HAVE MULTIPUL THREADS ON THE SAME BUILD AT DIFFERENT SITES TO PROTECT YOUR STUFF.....JUST THOUGHT THIS MIGHT BE HELPFUL FOR OTHERS WHO HAVE NOT DONE THIS....

TAKE CARE :D
 
1758gmt. They are back online again, but not much there, as you may imagine - just had a look!
Bob
 
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