Occre Revenge Wale Positioning Dilemma

[MarkDerby]

Some advice if you please - images attached and apologies if posted in the wrong section

OK so I am now starting to add the Wales (is that the correct term). I have fitted the first one (3mm width) along the bottom of the middle gun ports as depicted by the manual. The issue arises when fitting the next one down. The Occre manual states this is a 2 x 4mm strip but all of the images clearly shows this as a 2 x 3mm strip - Part E34. I also have 2 (actually 4 with the 3mm and 4mm strips) options which I have noticed some others have mentioned.

If I follow the line of the lower gun port tops the strip flares down and misses the rear balcony - Occre show it joining the bottom of the balcony and equal distance between the 2 wales.

If I follow the path of the upper wale the strip misses the lower rear gunports by a few mm. The 4mm strip also covers the gun port by 1 or 2mm

So I have 4 options

1 - 3mm and follow the top of the gun ports
2 - 3mm and follow the upper wale (looks more pleasing to the eye but misses the rear gun ports
3&4 - the same as above but use the stated 4mm strip

The bulwarks come ready laser cut so the gun port positioning is already defined - I'm sure they have remodelled this without updating any documentation or kit list over the years

I also received no 2x2 Sapelli strips in the kit - still waiting for Occre to respond to my ticket from last week

TIA

Mark

 

[AllanKP69]

There are a lot of photos of galleon models at RMG that might be helpful. While they are modern (1988) they may be useful as the museum is usually reliable in providing accurate information.

Collection Results | Royal Museums Greenwich

www.rmg.co.uk

These models have the sheer of the planking following the sheer of the decks/gunports which is unusual.

Model at RMG built in 1988


Keep in mind that the sheer line of the planking, including the wales, did not normally have any relation to the sheer of the decks/gunports.,
An example is below.
Model at RMG built in 1682

 

[Bilge Ratt]

Hi Allan;

I am going to let a large cat loose here amongst the pigeons: whilst I fully agree with you that the wales curved more than the decks, and that all surviving information seems to back that up, as far as I am aware; it is a most unfortunate fact that the ships drawn by Mathew Baker, in his manuscript now known as 'Fragments of Ancient English Shipwrightry' (we don't know what he called it!) all have wales which are in line with the gun-port cills, and so, therefore, the decks! This seems totally wrong to me, but it is hard to argue with Mathew Baker as an authority on ships of his era!
However, he also does not show quarter galleries or stern galleries on any of his ships; which is surely a further anachronism. So the question must be, was Baker hiding reality for some reason? Were his pictures idealised for aesthetic reasons? Or did he really build ships with wales concentric with the decks, with no quarter or stern galleries; and with very little decoration? Elizabethan warships were highly decorated; something which a forthcoming article of mine will demonstrate in Mariner's Mirror; yet Baker shows very little decoration on his ships, aside from painted panels.
Basically, what was Baker up to? We know that Deane left out vital parts of his doctrine, and that one cannot design a ship using his writings, despite their supposed intent. Did Baker anticipate this for some reason?

The model you show is the Bonaventure, supposedly, although this cannot be correct. A very beautiful model indeed, one of the finest in the RMG's collections, which I once had the privilege of viewing out of its case.

Ratty

 

[AllanKP69]

This seems totally wrong to me, but it is hard to argue with Mathew Baker as an authority on ships of his era!

I totally agree. The model from 1988 at RMG has this sheer of planking as well so I wonder if it is safe to assume that planking was done this way at some point in time? I need to spend some quality time with Richard Endor's books to see what he has offered.
Allan

 

[frankieg]

Ok, so I have the the same kit , Occre Revenge, have not done anything for quite some time but I do remember I had issues with wales widths and gunport layouts. I believe I had to adjust the wale widths and gunport positions slightly , to line up nicely, it didn't make sense directly from instructions. It was more of a case of getting it all to fit and still looking streamlined. I believe I recut some gunports to make it all fit. Good luck.

 

[MarkDerby]

Ok, so I have the the same kit , Occre Revenge, have not done anything for quite some time but I do remember I had issues with wales widths and gunport layouts. I believe I had to adjust the wale widths and gunport positions slightly , to line up nicely, it didn't make sense directly from instructions. It was more of a case of getting it all to fit and still looking streamlined. I believe I recut some gunports to make it all fit. Good luck.

My OCD wouldn't let it go I relocated the rear 2 gun ports as well in the end