Painting and lacquering a model ship.

LuigiSoft

LuigiSoft

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Jan 9, 2020
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Location
Bad Homburg, near Frankfurt am Main
Hi all,
This thread may exist already and, if so, apologies for the duplication.
My build of the HMB Endeavour ist not too far from completion of its hull construction stage, albeit still a bit of work on the stern and the bow to carry out. I will soon be uploading the first of many photos as a build log.
Although still some time down the road, my thoughts are turning to the painting scheme and, in particular, to lacquering of the hull. I noticed going through some of the uploaded pics of members builds on this and other sites, that some hulls show a glossy or semi-glossy aspect.
I looked up the history of the ships built in the 18th and 19th centuries and at that time only matt paint and matt wood protective were used. Obviously a varnished hull looks great on a modell and brings out the grain of the wood, but is not authentic for ships of that period. For the colour paints I am using Admiralty paint. What are the members thoughts on this topic?
 
While glossy paint can reveal the grain of the woods used it is totally unrealistic and out of scale on a model of a wooden ship as all "paints" used on the real thing had no sheen at all. If you are going to leave some of the wood it's natural color the most you should use is a sealer - such as Delta Ceramcoat all purpose sealer. This product is available in almost any craft store. I use it - not only to seal the wood and bring out its natural color - but also to seal it before the application of any color. It can be lightly sanded to bring down the grain that is raised as a result of using a water-based product, so that your color coat will have a smooth finish. It is also great for sealing the wood after staining, and it doesn't seem to affect the gluing of parts treated with it. Now I'm not familiar with Admiralty paint so I don't know how it applies or looks when dry. I tend to use only water based acrylics and stains, generic and name brand craft type paints usually, and they do a fine job at little expense - which is an important consideration when working with a limited budget. Plus the range of colors is virtually unlimited.
 
Hi Jim,
Thankyou for your thoughts. Admiralty colours are produced in the UK and I purchased them from Krick in Germany. They can be bought in sets for a particular model, are water-bases acrylic and very close to the original paint scheme. The lacquer from this series is matt and seals the pores of the wood. I'll be using this.
 
Jim is completely correct - no gloss colours and use a sanding sealer.
The sanding sealer leaves a very light sheen on the wood, which just 'lifts' the model (see King's Fisher below)
 
LuigiSoft said:
I looked up the history of the ships built in the 18th and 19th centuries and at that time only matt paint and matt wood protective were used. Obviously a varnished hull looks great on a modell and brings out the grain of the wood, but is not authentic for ships of that period. For the colour paints I am using Admiralty paint. What are the members thoughts on this topic?
Click to expand...
Personally, I don't like the 'glossy' appearance of the model and don't use any paint, simply because I don't know-how. I am happily using oils and beeswax in such, as I really think this is one of the best methods to protect\seal the wood. Some times, I use shellack as the final coat.

Ship modeling is a way of Art (IMHO), and a modelmaker is an artist. As an artist, everyone has their own view of finishing the model, in fact, even building the model. If you are building the 'copy', then you would try to adhere to the authentic... but wait... who can prove that authentication? Another artist, painter, model maker, or? Also, did the model build from the materials the actual ship was built? Did the method of the build was using frames or bulkheads?

...In the end, it will be only your decision. How YOUR model should look, and I am sure it will look great. Because you have built it!;)
 
White clear shellac over matt or flat paint works very well too. Another thing, modern acrylic paints can appear to be too cold, pure in colour, synthetic and modern in appearance. They do not look right. Old colour schemes were much warmer, subdued in tone and strength of colour due to resins and oils used as a medium and binder for the pigments which are various shades of honey colour and tend to also darken and yellow when dry. Even white paint has a yellowish tint.
Here is the Ancre colour chart for French ships from another thread. All the colours can be generally applicable to period European ships. Note the subued and warmer tones. Shellac or sanding sealer of preferred strength of tint can be used over modern paints to tone and warm them down if to modern in appearance.08713064-D331-4935-81D0-B870E04E09DB.jpeg
 
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JIm, wouldn't bees-wax and oil attract dust? I appreciate that the finished model should be housed in a cabinet, but even there, over time, dust can accumulate. I'll try the schellack method, as I usecd this product when french polishing surfaces on fruniture, although I don't intend french polishing my model. :)
 
Hello Luigi, Dust will be accumulated everywhere, no matter what surface it is. However, when you oil and wax surface you don't build-up layers. The oil penetrates (soak) into the timber and wax sealed it. If you will rub the treated surface with the tip of your nail, you will not collect any wax. the surface will be satin-smooth. :)
 
Hi Jim, what kind of wax do you use, i have just been using MIN-WAX TUNGE OIL with one coat of wipe on poly, i am going to experiment with the brush pens that MARRRTEN was usin to see if that will help me, then using tunge oil over it, what is your opion. Don
 
Hello Don, I use Organic Furniture wax (clear paste) and Linseed oil, both are natural products. I never use the product Wipe on Poly, so my opinion is useless. Oils, are something you have to experiment before applying on the model. Different oils will produce different results, they even can darken the wood. Test it is on the scrap wood first!
 
Hii Jim,
I appreciate what you are saying and your method sounds like a good one.
Do you dilute the linseed oil, say with turpentine (white spirit) spirit, or apply the oil neat to the timber? I applied clear matt varnish to the decks and this also gave me a slight sheen. I guess it's a question of finding the method that suits my ship, trialling first on scrap wood.
 
Hi, I am also thinking how to paint the hull and the sides of the ship. I glued some strips to a piece of wood and used polyurethane semi clear varnish for the first two coats direct from the tin and then I dilute 50/50 with white spirit and sanding after each coat. You can see that the sides split on the left natural wood strips and on the right with Liberon Golden pine stain. The bottom of the hull is natural mahogany strips. Hope this helps.
 

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as most of you know painting and Don are not compatable, thanks to JIM i now use tung oil for my finished, and one coat of wipe on poly, so far quite happy with results, i have purchased a couple of small kits from M/S these are for gifts for CHRISTMAS for family, but i am also going to use paint but not in the typical method, THANKS TO MARRTEN HELP i am going to use paint pens, pictures showing what i am using and also some very fine paint pens right not using to out line frame details on my Le Rochefort frame patterns, and a sample done on BASSWOOD,more expeimenting to do but so far like the out come. Don20200316_222933.jpg20200316_223110.jpg20200316_223507.jpg20200316_223948.jpg
 

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YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT MIKE, A LOT OF EXPERIMENTING TO DO, THE PICTURE OF MY SAMPLE DID NOT SHOW UP WELL WILL TRY TO GET A ANOTHER PICTURE, will keep everyone posted on results, THANKS FOR INPUT MIKE APPRECIATE IT. Don
 
LuigiSoft said:
Hii Jim,
I appreciate what you are saying and your method sounds like a good one.
Do you dilute the linseed oil, say with turpentine (white spirit) spirit, or apply the oil neat to the timber? I applied clear matt varnish to the decks and this also gave me a slight sheen. I guess it's a question of finding the method that suits my ship, trialling first on scrap wood.
Click to expand...
You are correct, everyone has its own methods and preferences for the finish. Different timbers may require specific finish. I do not dilute oils (never do). For a simple method, I use three coats. The surface should be well sanded with 1000 grit paper. To remove the dust and clean - I use turpentine with the soft cloth. Once Turpentine evaporates, using the soft brush I liberally oil the hull and cover the entire surface. I left for 15-20 minutes to penetrate. Whatever left after 20 minutes, wipe with a soft cloth. Now is the dry time, 48 hours in a dry cool place (no sun, or heat) it should dry naturally, Be patient!!!
When it is completely dry, use 1500 grit sandpaper to sand the hull. Clean with a dry cloth (no turpentine) to remove abrasive dust. Oil again (same way), please watch how much oil left after 20 minutes. If there is not much left, then you may need another coat (after it is completely dry for 48 hours). However, if much oil still on the hull, then it should be the last coat. Give it a bit more time for the final dry and use 0000 steel wool to sand. After that, use a small amount of wax on a felt cloth and rub with circulated motion until you like it :)

Hope this will help...
 
Thank you Jim for your detailed and helpful reply.
I am not in a hurry to finish the hull, although I have more time on my hands now as a result of covid-19! I still have to smooth the first planking before commencing the application of the second planking. Then I will experiment with different types of finishes, taking also your replys into account when doing so.
 
Mike and Luigi, those are watercolor brush pens. They would have to be sealed after application to ensure they stay. Otherwise just the moisture from your fingers could cause them to bleed and/or change the intensity of the color. They are not permanent.
 
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