Question: Why do some people feel model ship building needs a wider audience?

Because it is quite literally a dying art form. The majority of people engaged in this hobby are aging out of it. I’m a young’un at almost 52, and I’m now in what Bill Burr hilariously dubbed “the drop-dead years.” If I can make it to 62, I should live another 15. What the relative quality of those years might be is anyone’s guess. I hope to be doing my best work in that time.

It is also enlightening, at times, to see what other people have come up with to solve manufacturing deficiencies with kits, or to see for the first time, those builders that have gone out on a limb and crafted an entirely new and unexplored vessel. It all broadens one’s perspective on what is possible, while de-mystifying the more complex seeming aspects of the hobby.
 
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Hmmm,

I've just come across this thread, whilst in procrastination mode from another task.

I know I'm late to the discussion, and it is fascinating to read the different views, and my view is maybe simple, but I find that simple is good.
The clue is in the name 'Ships of Scale'

I'm not interested in expanding the hobby, or making/denying commercial interests. I came here because I have an interest in making a scaled down version of an actual ship. A sailing ship - one made from timber and with hundreds of lines. I have some skills and abilities to produce wooden parts, and it was not until I came across Harold Underhill's books on making models from line drawings and timber that I really gave the 'how' much thought.

If your aim is to produce a scale model, then gradually you can become sucked into the bottomless well that calls for research on the original, or maybe on the era to produce deck fitting that could have been fitted. Even the rigging styles changed over time.
So years can go by, and models that you turn out are of increasing accuracy. Suddenly you are called a scratch builder because the necessary short cuts in a production kit that allow a sensible price point and achievable skill level become unacceptable. I have commented here a couple of times about building frames rather than the kit fashion for bulkheads and double planking. I have done that. I wasn't happy though, when I had finished, and I would prefer to put in the time and the quality control to get an accurate model of the ship. I'll never quite manage it of course. You can't scale everything down because the laws of physics always apply, and something like a 1/96th scale four inches is is 0.0417 inches, which becomes finer than wood grain, even allowing for use of boxwood.

The one thing I am in total agreement with, which someone said above, is that criticism should be banned. Many people enjoy the production of 'something' and gain huge pleasure and calm from having made a model boat. These endeavours are to be praised and supported. Equally, when asked for, or just offering, an opinion, it would be polite to comment on inaccuracies in a positive way. "What a good model - you might like to try fitting the planks even more like the originals if you were to shape them at the end." rather than "the planking is all wrong" criticism and critique are different things, there is always something that can be given praise, and encourages the builder (or kit producer)

and at a macro level, turning out a generation of model making youngsters would be better for mankind than turning out screen junkies, so bring on the kits that lead people to use their time productively, and stay with a discussion forum that values positive sharing of experience and knowledge. Civilised discussion is always welcome. Politicians should come here and learn.

Jim
 
shipbuilder said:
I always judged my models by the amount they sold for at auction. That may have made me mercenary, but certainly not elitist, because it was only occasionally that I got decent prices. I know that a lot of shipmodellers think it a mortal sin to sell their models for money. But one has got to live. In late 1992, after 31 years at sea, it was all getting too much for me, and I gave up the rat-race to become self-employed as a ship modelmaker,and maritime historian. Even recently, I seldom achieved the minimum price per hour at model shipbuilding, but writing was far more successful with very high hourly rates, but all the model shipbuilding journals have practically gone now, so another door closed, but at 81, I guess it doesn't really matter.
I always thought of myself as "the poor man's model shipbuilder," because I could produce reasonable models in a short space of time at very low prices. But a number of people took advantage of me over the years, but I took it all on the chin - better than the rat race!
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Well, that was entirely depressing…..if not entirely accurate.
 
Interesting discussion. For me the issue is keeping the hobby alive by introducing new enthusiasts. Kits or scratch…whichever captures the imagination of new modelers. I am a kit builder. We need new modelers to keep the hobby alive.
 
Proc94 said:
Well, that was entirely depressing…..if not entirely accurate.
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Why was it depressing? And why was it not entirely accurate? It never depressed me, and I just accepted low prices in the same way I accepted ridiculously high prices at auctions. The last model I sold, I told my client how much it was, and he actually complained it was not high enough. I just said that was what I was asking for it, and if he wanted to pay more, I would be grateful. He paid me 1 1/2 times more! (on top of my asking price). I sold this one privately in the late 1990s for £400. It showed up years later in a London auction house where it sold for just over £3,800. That didn't bother me either!

Clan Mactaggart (Large).JPG
 
I think this issue is much wider than just the business of ship modelling. My concern is that young people today are more interested in playing with their mobile telephones or conducting games on their computers than in making something. Creating an artifact, whether is be a piece of furniture, a model or a painting has great theraputic value and if in so doing it helps to keep young people away from some of the madness on the internet or on social media then it serves a really useful purpose. The young need some sort of stimulant to get them onto the track of creativity and this is largely a matter that the eductional system needs to address.

Just another thought, the builder of a ship model kit is no longer the model maker. The model maker is the kit designer and the person that buys the kit is the model assembler. Nevertheless to assemble a good quality still provides tremendous satisfaction and a sense of achievement.
 
An Alternative point of view.

In 1981 I purchased the plans published by the Solomon Island Model Boat Club, SIMBC. The plans were for a 48” Skipjack with Radio Controls.

A Skipjack is a historic boat and primarily seen on the Chesapeake Bay. It was a work boat used to harvest oysters from shallow area. These were built locally and from a basic formula. The skipjack’s size was determined by the length of the log used to create the keel.

Locally the watermen would have Skipjack races amongst the few remaining historic boats.

I had a sailboat on the Chesapeake for 10 years. One summer we watched the Skipjack races at the Calvert Museum. That is how I became enamored by the lore of these sailing boats. I became acquainted with the SIMBC, joined the club and purchased the plans and instructions (typed and mimeographed). The SIMBC would install Radio Controls and race them as a club event.

I never got around to building the 48” model - life got in the way at the time. However, I kept the plans. Several years ago I got them out with the intention of building the model. I had some experience building model airplanes from kits, but I realized that I did not know how to start. I turned to the Internet, found sources, various build logs and the “Ships of Scale”.

All of these sources educated me on what I did not know. Notes on builds and forums from “real scale builders” helped me, although there were no mentions of Skipjacks or Radio Controled boats.

I thank you for the education. I was on a mission to build this Skipjack so I was not put off by the exclusion of my particular interest.

My point is, maybe you should expand your focus to include model builders who want to have boats built for fun, with Radio Controls, rather than built specifically for Show. Who knows, my next build might be a Ship of Scale.
 
The young need some sort of stimulant to get them onto the track of creativity

oh but they are creative just not what the old folks think as "creating" things. My grandsons can create from scratch that is they designed it and created it in cyber space, built a 3d model and animated it so it actually moved.

try to take an original set of drawings of a steam engine built in 1860 draft it in CAD, create a working 3D model with animation that is so creative it is beyond me. Then take it to the limits and 3D print it out, assemble it and watch it work. kids can do it can you?

my grandsons created the design, fabricated parts by 3Dprinted and CNC machined a robot and entered in national robotic competition and these were high school kids. if that is not creative i don't know what is. Buy the way it is the national "competition" that motivated and inspired those kids.
 
life runs backwards it took me years to learn how to and then develop the skills to scratch build a model of a ship. now that i know how and have the skills and tools i got too old and running out of time Here comes 80 better move fast
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
The young need some sort of stimulant to get them onto the track of creativity

oh but they are creative just not what the old folks think as "creating" things. My grandsons can create from scratch that is they designed it and created it in cyber space, built a 3d model and animated it so it actually moved.

try to take an original set of drawings of a steam engine built in 1860 draft it in CAD, create a working 3D model with animation that is so creative it is beyond me. Then take it to the limits and 3D print it out, assemble it and watch it work. kids can do it can you?

my grandsons created the design, fabricated parts by 3Dprinted and CNC machined a robot and entered in national robotic competition and these were high school kids. if that is not creative i don't know what is. Buy the way it is the national "competition" that motivated and inspired those kids.
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I would imagine that to do something like you say, the young "high school kids" would have to obtain access to CAD, and learn how to use it, expensive and time consuming! Then, they would have to have an expensive computer to build the virtual engine. They would then need to make, or obtain a 3D printer capable of printing all the parts that they could assemble to complete the project. All this would probably take vast amounts of time, dedication and cash.
Considering that model shipbuilding is mainly just a hobby, the wealthy can purchase a good kit for a few hundred dollars, or the relatively poor schoolboy (such as I was in the 1950s) could scratchbuild for next to nothing. I doubt if many would have the equipment, money, skills and patience to design and build a robot. As we are talking about model shipbuilding, I feel that these "superhuman" feats of computer, 3D design and construction, can only be enjoyed by a minority. Below: Me (Shipbuilder), back in 1952 - managing with a minimum of tools and materials. Just could not afford much in those far-off days - but it was most enjoyable, nevertheless -

My first workbench 1952.jpg
 
The competitive robot programs in American High Schools are a huge deal. What they accomplish is amazing. The better organized teams have kids working in designated roles just like a real business ; Project Managers, CAD Drafters, Assemblers, etc. It offers a sense of community for those not involved in the usual high school sports. Relative to Bob’s comment, the team is able to take advantage of the schools resources. The teams may also raise money as a group so that everyone can participate.

I do wish that more school faculty would realize that high school robotics is not an end in itself. Our country needs engineers and kids on these robot teams are natural candidates IF the guidance department makes sure that while participating in robotics, they also are taking the necessary math and science courses to be admitted to an engineering school.

Roger
 
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I am fairly new to this forum, but have always been interested in the sea and ships. With a background in engineering (and having worked in the Naval Nuclear program) I have always been drawn to ships and their construction. This overlayed with an interest in maritime history drew me to model shipbuilding. From a very selfish point of view, I hope the hobby expands widely. I have learned so much from this forum. The more people involved, the more resources from which to draw. Keep expanding!
 
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