Ratlines - distance

O

otsoa

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I am making a 16th century ship, 1/48 scale, specifically the San Bartolome.
The question I have is: What should be the distance correct between ratlines taking into account that the average height of a sailor in that century was 4.92 ft (1.5 meters)?
I hope the translator did it right.

Estoy haciendo un barco del siglo 16, escala 1/48, concretamente el San Bartolome. La duda que tengo es:
¿Cual debe de ser la distancia correcta entre flechastes teniendo en cuenta que la altura media de un marino en ese siglo era de 4,92 ft (1,5 metros)?
 
Perhaps you should investigate the average age of sailors in 1597. They were probably young boys. Most likely the ship was designed to handle the sea and not the crew. And most likely they did not sign up to do the journey. They were most likely kidnapped and thrown into the unknown. Or as a young lad dreaming of fame and fortune. And was there a war going on. There is always a war going on. Somewhere, sometime, always war. The sadness of humanity.
 
Also in the 16th century safety was important. Because they had not so much seamen on board, so it was important, that seamen can work as long as possible. And ratlines costs nothing compared to a lost "hand", which was necessary for sailing and fighting.
So I guess the distance was not very high between the "steps"
In Lees book a distance of 13 to 15 inches is mentioned.
In cm it would be between 33 and 38 cm -> so in your scale of 1:48 appr. 7 to 8mm
And now it comes to the esthetic of the ship model - especially if you use outscaled rope-material for the ratlines - does it look good or not?
 
Thanks for the response, Uwek. I have heard, but not documented, that the separation between the ratlines must be approximately the approximate distance between the ground and the sailors' knees, which coincides with your data. I haven't arrived yet, I'm studying it, so I sincerely appreciate any possible contribution, even if later we have to make concessions to aesthetics, we'll see. I will upload photos so that the members of the group can give their opinion, because I think it is something that is seen a lot in the finished boat and to which we must pay attention

Gracias por la respuesta, Uwek. Yo tengo oído, pero no documentado, que la separación entre los ratlines ha de ser aproximadamente la distancia aproximada entre el suelo y la rodilla de los marineros, lo que coincide con tus datos. Todavía no he llegado, estoy estudiándolo, por eso agradezco sinceramente toda aportación posible, aunque luego haya que hacer concesiones a la estética, lo iremos viendo. Subiré fotos para que los componentes del grupo den su opinión, pues creo que es algo que se ve mucho en el barco terminado ya lo que hay que prestar atención.
 
As a reference, the US Occupational Health and Safety Administration rules call for rungs on ladders to be spaced between 10 and 14 inches apart. This modern standard is based on worker safety and is probably smaller than the distance typically used for ratlines. Like all things in the real world, ratline spacing was based on balancing utility (could they be used quickly and efficiently by the crew?) against economic considerations (the cost of the rope and the use of labor to install them). I would guess that the spacing on any particular vessel was uniform; ratlines with differing spacing would be difficult to use in dark and stormy conditions.
Fair winds!
 
AndyA said:
As a reference, the US Occupational Health and Safety Administration rules call for rungs on ladders to be spaced between 10 and 14 inches apart. This modern standard is based on worker safety and is probably smaller than the distance typically used for ratlines. Like all things in the real world, ratline spacing was based on balancing utility (could they be used quickly and efficiently by the crew?) against economic considerations (the cost of the rope and the use of labor to install them). I would guess that the spacing on any particular vessel was uniform; ratlines with differing spacing would be difficult to use in dark and stormy conditions.
Fair winds!
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What you say is true, and it coincides with what Uwek says, in modern boats that is approximately the distance (14 inches) on the ratlines and they look really close together. Maybe I should forget about scale and give in to aesthetics? That's the question, when the time comes I will ask your opinion again.

Es cierto lo que dices, y coincide con lo que dice Uwek, en los barcos modernos esa es aproximadamente la distancia (14 inches) en los ratlines y se ven realmente juntos. ¿Quizás deba olvidarme de la escala y ceder a la estética? Esa es la duda, cuando llegue el momento volveré a consultar vuestra opinión
 
Once you determine you spacing, I suggest making a spacing guide, a piece of paper with multiple lines drawn on it, in proper spacing.

I clip this behind my shrouds to help line up the ratlines as you tie the knots.

Don't know if you have access to Microsoft Excel, which is what I used, but I just placed lines in bottom of each row, and then adjusted spacing between lines to get a guide.

With this file saved, you can make adjustments as scale of model changes.
 
Thank you very much for the suggestion Kurt Konrath. It's a good trick, but I already know it because I've been making models for several years and learning from people like you, who like to share their knowledge.

Muchas gracias por la sugerencia Kurt Konrath.
Es un buen truco, pero ya lo conozco pues llevo varios años haciendo modelos y aprendiendo de personas que gustan de compartir su conocimiento como usted

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Uwek said:
Also in the 16th century safety was important. Because they had not so much seamen on board, so it was important, that seamen can work as long as possible. And ratlines costs nothing compared to a lost "hand", which was necessary for sailing and fighting.
So I guess the distance was not very high between the "steps"
In Lees book a distance of 13 to 15 inches is mentioned.
In cm it would be between 33 and 38 cm -> so in your scale of 1:48 appr. 7 to 8mm
And now it comes to the esthetic of the ship model - especially if you use outscaled rope-material for the ratlines - does it look good or not?
Click to expand...
It always comes down to one point. This is your model. Yours alone. Somewhere in the bottom of the hold is a part you lost and had to remake. Shake, rattle and roll. I am astounded at the models I see here on this sight. 1 mm discrepancy on my cannon height. I do not worry too much about small things like that. My friends and neighbors think I am weird for spending money to do this hobby anyway. But when they look at what I have achieved they are always in agreement, it was worth it. They are always in awe of how it could be accomplished.
AndyA said:
As a reference, the US Occupational Health and Safety Administration rules call for rungs on ladders to be spaced between 10 and 14 inches apart. This modern standard is based on worker safety and is probably smaller than the distance typically used for ratlines. Like all things in the real world, ratline spacing was based on balancing utility (could they be used quickly and efficiently by the crew?) against economic considerations (the cost of the rope and the use of labor to install them). I would guess that the spacing on any particular vessel was uniform; ratlines with differing spacing would be difficult to use in dark and stormy conditions.
Fair winds!
Click to expand...
OSHA IS REALLY A JOKE. They parked in front of our only fire hydrants when they came for our inspection. Only the nations finest!
 
I am in total agreement with your statement. "It always comes down to one point. This is your model. Yours alone. Somewhere in the bottom of the hold is a part you lost and had to remake. Shake, rattle and roll. I am astounded at the models I see here on this sight. 1 mm discrepancy on my cannon height. I do not worry too much about small things like that. My friends and neighbors think I am weird for spending money to do this hobby anyway." Every build is different in some way, and when it gets to the point of obsessing over a small thing it is time I will leave the hobby. I make mistakes, I correct them to the best of my ability and move on. No one but me, will see most of them. This is the part that makes it fun, for me.
 
Will you black or tan line for the ratlines? We've had this disscussion before concerning my Mayflower model. I started with tan lines but visually they didn't stand out as much as I wanted them to. I agree many parts of a model boat come down to aesthetics that are pleasing to the builder.
 
johnl said:
Will you black or tan line for the ratlines? We've had this disscussion before concerning my Mayflower model. I started with tan lines but visually they didn't stand out as much as I wanted them to. I agree many parts of a model boat come down to aesthetics that are pleasing to the builder.
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Just from a practical standpoint I would imagine that vertical shrouds would be tarred for longevity, and horizontal ratlines left in their natural state which would mean they were less slippery, more easily inspected for damage, and didn't leave everyone's hands and feet covered in tar to spread around the rest of the ship.
 
I finished. The model of San Bartolome a month or so ago, my taglines are spaced at 9mm, and it looks about right.now started building Santa Maria. Both from Parvel Nikitin. Can't fault the kits.
 
Robert707 said:
I finished. The model of San Bartolome a month or so ago, my taglines are spaced at 9mm, and it looks about right.now started building Santa Maria. Both from Parvel Nikitin. Can't fault the kits.
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As you probably know, I am also making the San Bartolome, and I really like it, but they correctly supplied the Rope thimbles?. The fact is that I am missing several, which has paralyzed the construction. By the way, I think you are right about the 9 mm distance in the ratlines.

20240316_230848.jpg
 
Alan Smith said:
Just from a practical standpoint I would imagine that vertical shrouds would be tarred for longevity, and horizontal ratlines left in their natural state which would mean they were less slippery, more easily inspected for damage, and didn't leave everyone's hands and feet covered in tar to spread around the rest of the ship.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you
 
otsoa said:
As you probably know, I am also making the San Bartolome, and I really like it, but they correctly supplied the Rope thimbles?. The fact is that I am missing several, which has paralyzed the construction. By the way, I think you are right about the 9 mm distance in the ratlines.

View attachment 438486
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I was also short on the thimbles, carved replacements, once stained it was very difficult to tell the difference. If you have any spare in the larger size you can resize them to make replacement smaller ones., I was also short on ropes, so made my own
 
Robert707 said:
I was also short on the thimbles, carved replacements, once stained it was very difficult to tell the difference. If you have any spare in the larger size you can resize them to make replacement smaller ones., I was also short on ropes, so made my own
Click to expand...
Do you mean you made them yourself? I don't know if I could. At the moment I have ordered them from Pavel Nikitin, but for a long time, he always tells me that he will send it to me soon, but he doesn't, I suppose it is because of the war situation they are going through. The fact is that I have stopped construction and I would like to do the Santa Maria, but I don't know if it will be appropriate, seeing the situation. Haven't you posted photos of your work?
 
otsoa said:
Do you mean you made them yourself? I don't know if I could. At the moment I have ordered them from Pavel Nikitin, but for a long time, he always tells me that he will send it to me soon, but he doesn't, I suppose it is because of the war situation they are going through. The fact is that I have stopped construction and I would like to do the Santa Maria, but I don't know if it will be appropriate, seeing the situation. Haven't you posted photos of your work?
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Yes, using some of the remaining wood from the kit, I caved replacement thimbles, all three sizes. Then the ropes were wound using a model rope walk, it's very easy, and so much cheaper than being ready made..
 
I don’t know why you are calling these parts thimbles; the correct nomenclature in English is wood blocks or perhaps pulleys. From the side view, thimbles look like a teardrop. The outside of the thimble is concave so one can wrap a rope around it like a loop. If it’s steel cable you can clamp the two pieces together . Often there will be some kind of a fitting in the eye of the cable. I’m not so certain about rope thimbles. I owned and operated a hardware business that began as a ships’ chandler and in my time I catered to contractors who were looking primarily for wire rope and all the fittings.
Phil
 
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I don't post. Pictures of my work because. there are already build !it's of the same ships, and besides I'm not much of a writer.
 
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