Researching the Dutch ship Fortuyn (Fortune) 1614

Uwek

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
5,002
Points
113

Location
Vienna, Austria
#22
there was a wreck studied of a ship built in North America by Rene Robert Cavalier La Salle. Here is a wood cut of the ship under construction, looking at the round stern it looks like a Fluit this was built around 1670ish and the Dutch were well established in North America at this time. There is a thesis on this wreck and several plans drawn.
One thing I noticed is the palm tree odd because the ship was built in upper New York the wreck studied was in Lake Huron, Canada best to my knowledge palm trees do not grow in Canada.

HOWEVER the wood cut was published in nouvelle Decouverte d'um tres grand pays situe' dans l'amerique 1697 so that is like almost 30 years after the building so father Hennepin who traveled with La Salle, maybe the good Father confused details from the travels "understandable"

View attachment 48280
This is the Griffon, or?

The picture you are showing is made 1697 and called "Construction du Griffon en 1678-1679 sur le bord de la riviere Niagara en Ontario, gravure de Louis Hennepin tire du livre "Nouvelle Decouverte" de 1697.

Building-le-griffon.jpg

At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Griffon you can find this explanation (together with a lot of references):

Le Griffon's pattern closely followed the prevailing type used by explorers to cross the Atlantic Ocean to the New World. The exact size and construction of Le Griffon is not known. The widely referenced antique woodcutting of Le Griffon shows her with 2 masts but many researchers believe she was a 45-ton barque with a single mast with several square sails and 30 to 40 feet (9.1 to 12.2 m) long with a 10-to-15-foot (3.0 to 4.6 m) beam.

Hennepin's first account says she was a vessel of about 45 tons; his second says 60 tons. Because his second account has numerous exaggerations and cases where he credits himself for things that La Salle had done, Hennepin's first account is considered more reliable. In any case, Le Griffon was larger than any other vessel on the lakes at the time, and as far as contemporary reports can confirm, the first named vessel.


Le-griffon.jpg
Father Louis Hennepin's "Nouvelle Decouverte" (Utrecht, 1697)
 

didit

Well-Known Member
Sponsor
Joined
Jun 30, 2017
Messages
937
Points
93

#23
This is the Griffon, or?

the wreck that was studied was more of the "or" what it was never actually identified as the Griffon
 

FredV

New Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
12
Points
3

Location
Buena Park, California
#25
Can you re-post the article a bit smaller some of the info is cut off, some time on the left some time on the right.

it is not the size of the file posted it is because the original book is bigger than the scanner I could rescan the pages in 2 sections.

rather than rescan the pages in pieces and stitch them back together if you have any question about the text just ask and i can look at the original and tell you want is missing
I can figure out most of the info, so if I have a question I'll sent you a note, Thanks Fred
 

pebbleworm

Active Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
107
Points
28

#26
My translator app going to get a work out. [/QUOTE said:
For what it's worth. I've found DeepL-https://www.deepl.com/translator
Does a better job than google translate. Interface is a little clankier, with no resident "translate web page" feature, but the results are worth it. A lot of great information is bubbling up in this thread!
 

Maarten

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Messages
790
Points
93

Location
The Netherlands
#27
If you want to build it based on a kit then you should have a look at the site if Kolderstok models. They specialize in 17th century dutch ship modelkits and have a great kit of the Duyfken.
Duyfken is a ship of the type we now in Dutch as jacht. A small type of three masted light sailing ship. You would expect in the early 17th century the vessel used would be a jacht or a fluyt.
Both Duyfken and the Halve Maen (half moon) are jachten. If the ship was a freighter a fluyt would be more probable as she has much more cargo space then a jacht.

See the link below.
http://www.kolderstok-models.com/duyfken.en.html

If you look for scratch build of a ship like this or a fluyt you must have a look at the book of Ad Hoving about the ships of Abel Tasman. He used a fluyt and a jacht to sail around australia and new zeeland to map these in the 1640s. Ab Hoving wrote a book about these ships and reconstructed them incl all drawings neede to build the models.
This book incl drawings is also available in English.
See the link below to the Dutch website of the Publisher. I do have the Dutch version myself as I have the planning to build the fluyt as my next project.
https://verloren.nl/boeken/2086/253/2540/maritiem-en-waterstaat/de-schepen-van-abel-tasman

Hope it helps.
 

Olympic1911

Active Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Messages
32
Points
33

#31
@FredV was the Fortuyn you are interested in built in 1613 or mentioned in 1613? Obviously in those days ships weren't built to plans, instead the shipwright received a "Zerter" from the company ordering the ship, a charter in which some key dimensions were determined. In Wendy van Duivenvoorde's book is a complete charter of a 600ton ship from 1603. Also in Witsens work are several charters but these are from ships from the middle of the 17th century. One thing should be certain and that is that the Fortuyn was built shell-first and not frame-first. This will play an important role in designing the ship. Personally I like the idea of the Fortuyn being a yacht and not a Fluyt. A Fluyt was used when a large cargo was to be transported or was to be expected (whaling). A yacht as used for getting around.

Peter
 

donfarr

Well-Known Member
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
841
Points
93

#33
Thanks Maarten, I am going to take a look at your suggestion. The fortune is still a build away. But I keep thinking about a scratch build but worry about not having the talent to do it.
Me TOO.Don
 
Top