Rigging Question

KeithLyall

KeithLyall

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Hi fellow model makers
I am hoping someone is able to give advice on a rigging question. I am currently progressing the rigging on my Occre Endeavour build and in the rigging instructions there is a diagram that would appear to show running rigging being tied to the shrouds (see the diagram below). Unless I am misreading the diagram, is this normal practice, and if so how would extra rope have been arranged e.g. coiled, looped somehow or something else. Thanks in advance for all guidance.

IMG_4771.jpg
 
On many earlier ships, many of the running rigging lines were belayed to cleats which were in turn lashed to the shrouds. Sailors knew which line was which by which cleat the line was tied to.

On the Endeavor, the shroud cleats probably looks like this.
1690398237676.png

The excess running line would be coiled and stowed similar to how your would stow line on a belaying pin on a fife rail.
1690398612296.png

Here is a good video on how to "coil down".


Example of an early ship, HMS Sovereign of the Seas c.1637. A board which the cleats were mounted on was one method for providing belaying points for running rigging lines.
1690398003066.png
 
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DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
On many earlier ships, many of the running rigging lines were belayed to cleats which were in turn lashed to the shrouds. Sailors knew which line was which by which cleat the line was tied to.

On the Endeavor, the shroud cleats probably looks like this.
View attachment 386819

The excess running line would be coiled and stowed similar to how your would stow line on a belaying pin on a fife rail.
View attachment 386820

Here is a good video on how to "coil down".


Example of an early ship, HMS Sovereign of the Seas c.1635. A board which the cleats were mounted on was one method for providing belaying points for running rigging lines.
View attachment 386818
Click to expand...
Thank you for the prompt response and for the super useful information. Might be very fiddly trying to attach cleats to the shrouds in my case.
 
KeithLyall said:
Thank you for the prompt response and for the super useful information. Might be very fiddly trying to attach cleats to the shrouds in my case.
Click to expand...
If you glue these shroud cleats to the shroud and then lash them to the shrouds with thread, they will work well. 5mm cleats are the smallest ones available at the moment. The cleats face inboard. Tying the running rigging line to the cleat first and then routing it up into the blocks and ultimately to the sail or yardarm is easier than tying the end to a belaying pin. Make a bunch of coils to hang from the cleat afterward, and you have a LOT of detail to look at when the model is done.

Shroud Cleats at DryDock Models
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
If you glue these shroud cleats to the shroud and then lash them to the shrouds with thread, they will work well. 5mm cleats are the smallest ones available at the moment. The cleats face inboard. Tying the running rigging line to the cleat first and then routing it up into the blocks and ultimately to the sail or yardarm is easier than tying the end to a belaying pin. Make a bunch of coils to hang from the cleat afterward, and you have a LOT of detail to look at when the model is done.

Shroud Cleats at DryDock Models
Click to expand...
Thanks again. Have looked up supplier and can get better cleats than those supplied with the kit. More work but agree it will add detail.
 
danielsje said:
Use a drop of CA gel on the cleat…hold to shroud. The CA gel will take about ten seconds to cure and hold the cleat. Then dress it up with some seizing around the cleat and the stay. Anyway…I found the CA gel to do the trick…
Click to expand...
Thanks Jim. Shroud cleats now on order so more fiddly work to do but should be worth it.
 
Hi fellow modellers,
Rigging is progressing on my Endeavour build but I have another question. On the rigging diagrams there are blue lines J93, J94 and J95 that appear to run from the front of the sail. Is this correct and what is their purpose. Thanks

IMG_5049.jpg
 
KeithLyall said:
Hi fellow modellers,
Rigging is progressing on my Endeavour build but I have another question. On the rigging diagrams there are blue lines J93, J94 and J95 that appear to run from the front of the sail. Is this correct and what is their purpose. Thanks

View attachment 396145
Click to expand...
Hi Keith,
These look like leech lines. They are along the edges of the sail and help the sail retain its shape while underway and reduce flutter. They are paired - left and right.

1695553307571.png
 
dockattner said:
Hi Keith,
These look like leech lines. They are along the edges of the sail and help the sail retain its shape while underway and reduce flutter. They are paired - left and right.

View attachment 396157
Click to expand...
Actually Paul, he is asking about bowlines, not leech lines. Leech lines draw the leech edges of the sail up and toward the yard, and are fitted on both sides of the sail. They gather the sail in order to assist furling or fartheling the sail to the yard. On early ships like the ones you and I build, they were in the form of martnets. Martnets evolved from those into the simpler lines we now know as leechlines.
1695559219106.png

Bowlines are the ones that used to trim the weather leech of the sail well out when sailing with the sail close hauled (when the yard is rotated to bring the leech edge into the wind). They are only attached to the leech on the forward side of the sail. When the sails are set at a run (wind directly behind the sail), the bowlines hang slack on both leech edges of the sail. When the yards are angled into the wind, the leading bowlines are taut, and the lagging ones are slack. These are the lines that are designed to reduce flutter of the sail.
1695559764361.png

Time to build another ship, Paul! Your sheets are slipping! ROTF ;)
 
Last edited:
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Actually Paul, he is asking about bowlines, not leech lines. Leech lines draw the leech edges of the sail up and toward the yard, and are fitted on both sides of the sail. They gather the sail in order to assist furling or fartheling the sail to the yard. On early ships like the ones you and I build, they were in the form of martnets. Martnets evolved from those into the simpler lines we now know as leechlines.
View attachment 396161

Bowlines are the ones that used to trim the weather leech of the sail well out when sailing with the sail close hauled (when the yard is rotated to bring the leech edge into the wind). They are only attached to the leech on the forward side of the sail. When the sails are set at a run (wind directly behind the sail), the bowlines hang slack on both leech edges of the sail. When the yards are angled into the wind, the leading bowlines are taut, and the lagging ones are slack. These are the lines that are designed to reduce flutter of the sail.
View attachment 396162

Time to build another ship, Paul! Your sheets are slipping! ROTF ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks Kurt. Nomenclature should only be used when it is still in short term memory.
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Actually Paul, he is asking about bowlines, not leech lines. Leech lines draw the leech edges of the sail up and toward the yard, and are fitted on both sides of the sail. They gather the sail in order to assist furling or fartheling the sail to the yard. On early ships like the ones you and I build, they were in the form of martnets. Martnets evolved from those into the simpler lines we now know as leechlines.
View attachment 396161

Bowlines are the ones that used to trim the weather leech of the sail well out when sailing with the sail close hauled (when the yard is rotated to bring the leech edge into the wind). They are only attached to the leech on the forward side of the sail. When the sails are set at a run (wind directly behind the sail), the bowlines hang slack on both leech edges of the sail. When the yards are angled into the wind, the leading bowlines are taut, and the lagging ones are slack. These are the lines that are designed to reduce flutter of the sail.
View attachment 396162

Time to build another ship, Paul! Your sheets are slipping! ROTF ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks Kurt and Paul for the prompt responses, much appreciated. The bowlines appear to match the plan. Ps quite some collection of books Kurt
 
KeithLyall said:
Thanks Kurt and Paul for the prompt responses, much appreciated. The bowlines appear to match the plan. Ps quite some collection of books Kurt
Click to expand...
You're welcome Keith. Sorry about the naming error - what I described was accurate but got the terms swapped in my head. Good thing we have Kurt on the forum to keep us nautically precise!
 
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