Scroll saw

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pay2700

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I am looking for a hand scroll saw that is fairly accurate, easy to use and appropriate for cutting out knees and other small wood parts.
Appreciate suggestions. A couple that I found on Amazon, links below.
 
The saw frames and blades you've linked are fairly standard, acceptable quality, jeweler's saws. There are less expensive frame models on the market, but I would not recommend them. Jeweler's saws are primarily used for sawing metal in jewelry making but are certainly also be suitable for woodworking. These saw frames retail for as little as fifteen bucks, but the higher quality ones from the recognized jeweler's tool houses like Grobet, will run around $80.00 and up. The more expensive ones look the same but are of higher quality. I've always found the ones similar to what you've linked to be acceptable for modeling work. For optimum performance, the correct type of blade should be always be used. There's a wide selection of blades for various materials and purposes. (Metal-cutting blades require lubrication.) Because of their delicacy and expense, don't skimp on blade quality. Don't buy your blades from one of the hobby outlets. Get top-quality blades from one of the professional jeweler's supply houses. They'll quite possibly less costly in the long run and of much better quality that the hobby and craft catalog ones. (See: https://www.ottofrei.com/ and https://www.riogrande.com/)

There is also a relatively new style of saw frame now on the market that is getting rave reviews. The defining quality factor in a jeweler's saw frame is rigidity and the Knew Concepts line of titanium saw frames are reportedly the most rigid frames around. Rigidity aside, the Knew Concepts frames don't appear to be able to adjust to accommodate different blade lengths. The less expensive frames can be shortened, so when you break a blade (and, oh, you will, you will break blades!) you can remount the broken blade if it's of sufficient length and not have to write it off as a total loss. (The Knew Concepts frames start around $150. The one pictured is $250. Maybe somebody who has one can let us know if they are worth the money.)

1740437034613.png

These saws are primarily intended to be used in conjunction with a "jeweler's bench pin." The bench pin attaches to the workbench and supports the fine work done with the jeweler's saw, files, and other tools. Sometimes bench pins are included in a package when you purchase the type of saws you've linked. See: https://www.amazon.com/Tanstic-Jewe...sc=1&msclkid=4b95a1ed6b77125cff10c6518740c251

1740434847016.png

Here's a good explanation of jeweler's saws: https://www.halsteadbead.com/articles/jewelers-guide-bench-pin#:~:text=The image above shows

I prefer the cast iron type of bench vise pictured below. I favor a very strong, rigid bench pin. Some of the flimsy ones like the one pictured above are difficult to use, especially if you want to be hammering on them. I can fabricate any sort of wooden peg I wish with this cast iron model and easily pull one wooden peg out and insert the other to suit the task at hand. This model's included anvil surface also gets a lot of use on my metal-working bench.
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Bench Anvil Pin Clamp Jewelers Steel And Wood Block Jewelry Making Bench Workbench By JTS - Search Shopping

Enjoy great deals on Bench Anvil Pin Clamp Jewelers Steel And Wood Block Jewelry Making Bench Workbench By JTS at Bing Shopping! Find what you're looking for at a great price today.
www.bing.com www.bing.com

You should check out YouTube videos on how to use a jeweler's saw. It's a much more precise tool than a coping saw. Proper technique is essential to achieve maximum cutting accuracy and avoid excessive blade breakage and user fatigue. It's not a tool that one should attempt to use without reading the instructions, regardless of how counterintuitive that may seem. There have been books written solely about using the jeweler's saw. An experienced user can do some amazing things with one!
 
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Wow, thank you Bob. This is a great resource for me and I look forward to learn to make parts much better than previously.
I have spent some time reviewing the options and watching a couple of videos but will review again, make some purchases and then look forward to some initial practice pieces.
Thanks again. Really appreciate this informative response.
Phil
 
I will second Bob's recommendations..

I have a relatively expensive saw frame ( Green Lion saw frame https://www.micro-tools.ca/products/gl-jsf-g ) and it is now my go to saw. I also have a less expensive Grobet one as well. They both get used frequently.

I also second Bob's suggestion on the cast iron heavier duty bench pin. Once you have and use it you will wonder how managed without.

Bob did not however go into much detail on blades. this is a chart which you will find handy:

Jeweller’s Saw Blades Sizing Chart - The Bench

Choosing the right saw blade can seem quite complicated, which is why we've created a handy jeweller's saw blades sizing chart to help you out. Learn more.
www.cooksongold.com www.cooksongold.com

Pick your saw blades sizes based on the thickness of the materials you will be cutting. For typical wood sizes you will find the numbers 1 to 4 most suitable and for thinner metal the 0/3 and 0/4 sizes.

And, don't get caught up the notion of having to have an adjustable frame so that you can use shorter broken bits of blade - it is just not worth the effort. Buy blades in bulk to get a good price.

Check out the jewellers supply houses and there are quite a few in the US. They will have lots of good quality products to choose from.

cheers, Graham
 
Wow, lots of good info from Bob and Graham. But, I’ll toss in a complete novice’s viewpoint. I bought the first saw on your Amazon suggestions. It works well enough for me except that the blade tightening knobs seem to get in the way a lot when using the saw. It may be my technique since I have no other reference but it’s a drawback for me. Secondly, I found the handle kind of slippery so I wrapped some hockey tape around the handle which helps me grip the saw better. Also, it came with 4 different blade sizes that are all for metal work not for trying to cut wooden knees or other small wood parts. I actually found that a spiral cutting scroll saw blade fits and works well for me on wood. As for the bench vise I just cut a notch in a piece of hardwood and clamp it to my workbench which seems to work fine as I’m not making jewelry and can sand away rough cuts. Just my two cents…
 
Although there are saw frames in a variety of price ranges I have always found that a good tool is always a joy to work with and makes the hobby much more enjoyable. Pepe tools sells the Haymaker by Lion Punch, Green Lion has their well thought out and priced fret saw and these are a class apart from the traditional sternum breaker saws but very much the same principle with some improvements. Both great saws. The one truly different is Knew Concepts, it is a beautifully engineered saw that eliminates the sternum issue and the blade tension problem.
Although the Knew Concepts saw is expensive at $105 to $115 for a 3” it is a gem of a tool. It has a number of improvements over the traditional fret saw: rotating blade clamps if you choose the option so technically a 3” throat is not a limitation. Extremely lightweight and a well proportioned handle. On mine I use a foam cuff for better grip if my hand gets sweaty, it’s a Florida thing:-) the real magic of this saw is the blade tensioning system and its repeatability to put on the same tension when making piercing cuts. The Cam lever makes tensioning of the blade a joy in combination with the micro adjuster. You do not need the sophisticated Bench Pin but in conjunction with the saw it will bring a smile when you use it. As Graham mentioned before do not get caught up in the habit of using blade shorts as only the ends of the blades are hardened and suitable for gripping. Man I wonder if Knew Concepts would be nice enough to send me some free blades for this??? Seriously it is a great little tool.

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Roman said:
Although there are saw frames in a variety of price ranges I have always found that a good tool is always a joy to work with and makes the hobby much more enjoyable. Pepe tools sells the Haymaker by Lion Punch, Green Lion has their well thought out and priced fret saw and these are a class apart from the traditional sternum breaker saws but very much the same principle with some improvements. Both great saws. The one truly different is Knew Concepts, it is a beautifully engineered saw that eliminates the sternum issue and the blade tension problem.
Although the Knew Concepts saw is expensive at $105 to $115 for a 3” it is a gem of a tool. It has a number of improvements over the traditional fret saw: rotating blade clamps if you choose the option so technically a 3” throat is not a limitation. Extremely lightweight and a well proportioned handle. On mine I use a foam cuff for better grip if my hand gets sweaty, it’s a Florida thing:-) the real magic of this saw is the blade tensioning system and its repeatability to put on the same tension when making piercing cuts. The Cam lever makes tensioning of the blade a joy in combination with the micro adjuster. You do not need the sophisticated Bench Pin but in conjunction with the saw it will bring a smile when you use it. As Graham mentioned before do not get caught up in the habit of using blade shorts as only the ends of the blades are hardened and suitable for gripping. Man I wonder if Knew Concepts would be nice enough to send me some free blades for this??? Seriously it is a great little tool.

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They would have probably sent you some blades if you had included a link. ROTF
 
Roman said:
Although there are saw frames in a variety of price ranges I have always found that a good tool is always a joy to work with and makes the hobby much more enjoyable. Pepe tools sells the Haymaker by Lion Punch, Green Lion has their well thought out and priced fret saw and these are a class apart from the traditional sternum breaker saws but very much the same principle with some improvements. Both great saws. The one truly different is Knew Concepts, it is a beautifully engineered saw that eliminates the sternum issue and the blade tension problem.
Although the Knew Concepts saw is expensive at $105 to $115 for a 3” it is a gem of a tool. It has a number of improvements over the traditional fret saw: rotating blade clamps if you choose the option so technically a 3” throat is not a limitation. Extremely lightweight and a well proportioned handle. On mine I use a foam cuff for better grip if my hand gets sweaty, it’s a Florida thing:-) the real magic of this saw is the blade tensioning system and its repeatability to put on the same tension when making piercing cuts. The Cam lever makes tensioning of the blade a joy in combination with the micro adjuster. You do not need the sophisticated Bench Pin but in conjunction with the saw it will bring a smile when you use it. As Graham mentioned before do not get caught up in the habit of using blade shorts as only the ends of the blades are hardened and suitable for gripping. Man I wonder if Knew Concepts would be nice enough to send me some free blades for this??? Seriously it is a great little tool.

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That Knew Concepts anvil and bench pin sure look nifty, but I'm afraid it's God's way of telling me I have enough tools already.  Redface At $90 each, I'll wait until I find it on sale. ;)
 
Bob Cleek said:
That Knew Concepts anvil and bench pin sure look nifty, but I'm afraid it's God's way of telling me I have enough tools already.  Redface At $90 each, I'll wait until I find it on sale. ;)
Click to expand...
Bob, they are expensive but these are tools that you can pass on to your children. The dovetail clamp with the anvil has múltiple uses. There is another versión of this without the anvil. If you like making your own metal fittings like I do, this type of setup is nice to have. I like these because I can take it with me and set it anywhere. Sometimes it is nice to sit outside at the porch and enjoy a nice breeze and natural light while cutting the small parts for a project.
 
Roman said:
Bob, they are expensive but these are tools that you can pass on to your children. The dovetail clamp with the anvil has múltiple uses. There is another versión of this without the anvil. If you like making your own metal fittings like I do, this type of setup is nice to have. I like these because I can take it with me and set it anywhere. Sometimes it is nice to sit outside at the porch and enjoy a nice breeze and natural light while cutting the small parts for a project.
Click to expand...

No question that the Knew Concepts tools are "keepers." Unfortunately, all I've got are daughters. My 13-year-old grandson has no interest in tools or making stuff whatsoever. His 2-year-old brother is my only hope for passing any of my not inconsiderable collection of tools down. I'm afraid my three quarters of a century of tool acquisition, including what all my father left to me, will someday end up being one hell of a garage sale! :mad: All kids seem interested in these days are skateboards and video games.
 
Bob Cleek said:
The saw frames and blades you've linked are fairly standard, acceptable quality, jeweler's saws. There are less expensive frame models on the market, but I would not recommend them. Jeweler's saws are primarily used for sawing metal in jewelry making but are certainly also be suitable for woodworking. These saw frames retail for as little as fifteen bucks, but the higher quality ones from the recognized jeweler's tool houses like Grobet, will run around $80.00 and up. The more expensive ones look the same but are of higher quality. I've always found the ones similar to what you've linked to be acceptable for modeling work. For optimum performance, the correct type of blade should be always be used. There's a wide selection of blades for various materials and purposes. (Metal-cutting blades require lubrication.) Because of their delicacy and expense, don't skimp on blade quality. Don't buy your blades from one of the hobby outlets. Get top-quality blades from one of the professional jeweler's supply houses. They'll quite possibly less costly in the long run and of much better quality that the hobby and craft catalog ones. (See: https://www.ottofrei.com/ and https://www.riogrande.com/)

There is also a relatively new style of saw frame now on the market that is getting rave reviews. The defining quality factor in a jeweler's saw frame is rigidity and the Knew Concepts line of titanium saw frames are reportedly the most rigid frames around. Rigidity aside, the Knew Concepts frames don't appear to be able to adjust to accommodate different blade lengths. The less expensive frames can be shortened, so when you break a blade (and, oh, you will, you will break blades!) you can remount the broken blade if it's of sufficient length and not have to write it off as a total loss. (The Knew Concepts frames start around $150. The one pictured is $250. Maybe somebody who has one can let us know if they are worth the money.)

View attachment 503121

These saws are primarily intended to be used in conjunction with a "jeweler's bench pin." The bench pin attaches to the workbench and supports the fine work done with the jeweler's saw, files, and other tools. Sometimes bench pins are included in a package when you purchase the type of saws you've linked. See: https://www.amazon.com/Tanstic-Jewe...sc=1&msclkid=4b95a1ed6b77125cff10c6518740c251

View attachment 503108

Here's a good explanation of jeweler's saws: https://www.halsteadbead.com/articles/jewelers-guide-bench-pin#:~:text=The image above shows

I prefer the cast iron type of bench vise pictured below. I favor a very strong, rigid bench pin. Some of the flimsy ones like the one pictured above are difficult to use, especially if you want to be hammering on them. I can fabricate any sort of wooden peg I wish with this cast iron model and easily pull one wooden peg out and insert the other to suit the task at hand. This model's included anvil surface also gets a lot of use on my metal-working bench.
View attachment 503184

View attachment 503111
View attachment 503114

Bench Anvil Pin Clamp Jewelers Steel And Wood Block Jewelry Making Bench Workbench By JTS - Search Shopping

Enjoy great deals on Bench Anvil Pin Clamp Jewelers Steel And Wood Block Jewelry Making Bench Workbench By JTS at Bing Shopping! Find what you're looking for at a great price today.
www.bing.com www.bing.com

You should check out YouTube videos on how to use a jeweler's saw. It's a much more precise tool than a coping saw. Proper technique is essential to achieve maximum cutting accuracy and avoid excessive blade breakage and user fatigue. It's not a tool that one should attempt to use without reading the instructions, regardless of how counterintuitive that may seem. There have been books written solely about using the jeweler's saw. An experienced user can do some amazing things with one!
Click to expand...
Great tips, especially the bench vise!
 
This is a terrific tutorial. I have been struggling with cutting out my small wood pieces and now have good direction to practice and develop.
Many thanks to all.
 
OK. I’m at the point in my project where I’m going to have to buy a jewelers saw. I used to have a cheap one, bought I think from Model Shipways in their Yellow box days. I never learned how to use it properly and eventually trashed it.

I need it to cut parts from hard sheet brass. .010” - .032” thick. I’m thinking of laying out the $$ for a Knew Concepts saw but I have some reservations. Amazon reviews say that the blades can be hard to seat properly. They also say that the knobs are not knurled requiring pliers.

With neuropathy in both hands I am becoming increasingly aware of problems that are only annoyances to others. If, however, these saws are built to American thread standards the knobs can be easily replaced. I particularly like the idea of the cam blade tension, but don’t want to deal with the blade popping out.

Comments appreciated.

Roger
 
Roger your concerns are all valid, I would seek out Jewellers websites where you can get unbiased reviews of the saw. I have not found the tightening or seating of the blades to be a problem. I find the Knew Concepts saws a joy to use. I have the aluminum 3” red one in my post as well as the Titanium birdcage version but the red saw is much lighter and comfortable on the hand. The foam cuff is not necessary but it makes the handle much more comfortable. There are no perfect tools out there but these are a great choice.
 
Roger Pellett said:
Amazon reviews say that the blades can be hard to seat properly
Click to expand...
Be careful on Amazon. Ensure you are looking at a genuine Knew Concepts saw. I am starting to see Asian copies and look alikes.

If you are willing spend $$$ for Knew Concepts saw then your best bet would be to check out one the many jewellers suppliers or direct from Knew Concepts.

cheers, Graham
 
Thanks guys!

Someone posting a negative Amazon review says that he got one with a bad finish and complained that the Knew Concepts people were not helpful. Maybe he got a knockoff.

Roger
 
You will always find someone that has a bad experience with a product. Some years ago before I purchased my MKIII Precision saw
a bench mounted version, I had my own apprehensions. Although that first saw had some limitations it proved its designers were about to change an age old tool into something fresh and pleasurable to use. To this day holding a knew Concepts saw in my hands validates the investment. There are plenty of YouTube reviews that will aid in your decision making process.
 
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Roger Pellett said:
OK. I’m at the point in my project where I’m going to have to buy a jewelers saw. I used to have a cheap one, bought I think from Model Shipways in their Yellow box days. I never learned how to use it properly and eventually trashed it.

I need it to cut parts from hard sheet brass. .010” - .032” thick. I’m thinking of laying out the $$ for a Knew Concepts saw but I have some reservations. Amazon reviews say that the blades can be hard to seat properly. They also say that the knobs are not knurled requiring pliers.

With neuropathy in both hands I am becoming increasingly aware of problems that are only annoyances to others. If, however, these saws are built to American thread standards the knobs can be easily replaced. I particularly like the idea of the cam blade tension, but don’t want to deal with the blade popping out.

Comments appreciated.

Roger
Click to expand...

The Knew Concepts line of jeweler's saws is certainly attractive, and they do get good reviews, although, these days, "reviews" on marketing websites are categorically suspect. I've never had one in my hand, so I can't say anything negative about them other than they seem to be rather expensive for what they are. It seems there's something of a fad now for CNC-cut aluminum tools with pretty colored anodizing and tools with bronze castings instead of cast iron, but it's hard to see whether they are any better than models which have been "industry standards" for often over a hundred years or more.

For example, aside from the "bling" fit and finish and recognizing that the blade iron is probably of a better quality, I have a hard time justifying paying $125.00 for a Lie-Nielsen squirrel tail modelmaker's block plane:

1743634382753.png
www.lie-nielsen.com

Model Maker's Block Plane

No. 100 Model Maker's Block Plane This delightful, small tool fits snugly in the palm of your hand. It is a miniature work-horse — ideal for all sorts of chamfering and trimming jobs. Overall length, including the squirrel-tail handle, is 4-7/8". The sole is 1-1/4" wide x 3-1/2" long. Ductile...
www.lie-nielsen.com www.lie-nielsen.com

when my German-made Kunz knock-off

1743635079989.png

which costs $30.00 on Amazon with free shipping works just as well. (Both the Kunz and the Lie Nielsen are exact copies of the Stanley #100.)

1743635467499.png

I wonder whether the Knew Concepts saws are just the Lie Nielsens of jeweler's saws. The standard jeweler's saw has been made in nearly identical form by several manufacturers forever. Prices seem to fluctuate a bit depending on the brand name, but there appears to be little difference between those in the upper and middle price ranges. Your best bet is to buy from a professional jeweler's and watchmaker's supply house such as Otto Frei, which has been around for almost a hundred years and is the go-to supply house west of the Rockies. (See: https://www.ottofrei.com/) They have all the professional quality jeweler's saw frames anybody could want in all frame sizes, plus a huge blade assortment, of course. Most of the traditional type saw frames are going to run between ten and thirty bucks, but on the other hand, the Knew Concepts and other "better mousetrap" lines will start at a bit over a hundred bucks and on up.

Note that jeweler's saw frames come in various overall sizes, as well as in "adjustable" and "fixed" throat sizes. In whatever throat size you might wish, I think it's best to go for the adjustable throat because if you break a blade, it's often possible to use the "long end" of the broken blade again as a simply shorter blade by adjusting the frame throat opening. I'd recommend taking a look at the blade choices available and decide what length blades you want to use and then buy a frame sized to match your blade selections. Below are Otto Frei's Indian made traditional frame saws. They also have an identical line of German made saw frames. The Indian ones are $9.00 to $14.00, depending upon their size. The German ones are $20.00 to $28.00. (Subject to tariff changes, I suppose.)

I don't have any personal interest in Otto Frei, but I feel they deserve a plug. Ship modelers often look no further than their local ship modeling catalogs for tools, but most all tools used for ship modeling are borrowed from other trades. Jewelry and watch making have many tools which are particularly well suited to ship modeling. If you are looking for anything related to metal work, or rotary tools, files, measuring instruments, saws, pliers and cutters, and so on, Otto Frei's online catalog should be your first stop. Their prices aren't always the cheapest, but you know you will be getting professional quality tools and impeccable customer service. (See: https://www.ottofrei.com/)

1743638892970.png
www.ottofrei.com

Search: 70 results found for "jeweler's saw frames"

Otto Frei has been in the jewelry business for over 94 years through 4 generations of family. We carry a large range of jewelry tools and findings and ship worldwide. Chat with us online or over the phone! 800-772-3456
www.ottofrei.com www.ottofrei.com

Anyway, I spent a lot of years using a jeweler's saw incorrectly before stumbling upon an excellent book from which I learned to use them correctly. I won't try to describe all the details here, but three tips I found helpful (or three ignorant blunders I was previously making, depending upon which end of the spyglass you're looking through ;)) were:

How to hold the jeweler's saw correctly:
Grab the handle like it was a hammer and the end of the adjustable "leg" of the saw frame resting on the top of your wrist. Then release your thumb and forefinger from the handle completely, leaving your other three fingers alone to hold the handle. Holding the handle with a relaxed grip with your last three fingers and with the frame leg resting on your wrist, the saw frame, and thus the blade, will be in alignment with your hand and forearm and your wrist will not be bent. The saw blade will be at a right angle to your straightened forearm and hand. This is how the saw is supposed to be held when being used on the bench peg.

The saw blade cuts metal a lot better when it is lubricated by running it across a block of beeswax.

The bench pin must be mounted at a comfortable height held perfectly flat and secure against it when being sawed.
Thus, when the blade is correctly presented to the workpiece with a straight up and down motion, rather than a "rocking" sawing motion, it will cut evenly, be easier to control, and the user's movement will be ergonomically correct. Attention to these details greatly reduce blade breakage.

Correcting my errors in these three areas has made my use of my jeweler's saw a lot more effective and efficient. A copy of this book be a valuable reference resource for any sort of miniature metal working you'll encounter building ship models. While it primarily addresses the jeweler's saw, it also covers all other aspects of miniature sheet metal and wire work, such as drilling. Used copies are availabe on Amazon for $17.00. See: https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Artists-Workbench-Demystifying-Jewelers/dp/1440311463

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Probably a knock-off- but nicely finished. Around $20 on Ebay UK. The vendors are a well-respected tool merchant. I bought one of these btw, and am happy with the quality.

www.ebay.co.uk

Tyzack Squirrel Palm Plane Tail Plane No. 100 Pocket Plane - 82mm x 32mm | eBay

The flat palm plane is perfect for chamfering and trimming, while the curved palm plane has the sole rounded side-to-side (1 1/2" radius) and front-to-back (12" radius). The blades are 30° bevel lapped tool steel (0.085" thick by 1" wide), and are secured with a cogwheel screw.
www.ebay.co.uk
 
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