Soleil Royal: 1669, 1692 or 1749

Gilbertm

Gilbertm

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Hello all

I am considering building the Soleil Royal ship and making some investigations, I realize that there are 3 different ships under that name:
- Soleil Royal built in 1669 in the city of Brest by Laurent Hubac. The name was given as reference to Louis XIV who named himself "le roi Soleil". She had 104 guns (98 initially), was 200 ft long and was burnt at la Houghe battle in June 1692.
- Soleil Royal built in 1692 in the city of Brest by Blaise Pangalo. The initial name of this ship was le Foudroyant and she has been renamed as Soleil Royal in 1693. She had 104 guns, was 170ft long and under the order of Louis XIV was scuttled in the Toulon harbour in 1707 then destroyed in 1713.
- Soleil Royal built in 1749 in the city of Brest. She had 80 guns and was 194 feet long and was scuttled in 1759

My question is related to the various models that exist for this boat (Mantua, de Agostini, ZHL, may be others). It looks like the Mantua and the de Agostini models are based on the 1669 version. I am not sure about ZHL as their description is not very precise. Any clue here?

By the way are there differences between the 1669 and the 1692 ships?

I would be interested in reading input from those who have built or looked at this ship

Thanks
 
Hello Gilbertm,

I am by no means an expert on the subject, so happy to stand corrected by others, but looking at the ZHL Soleil kit I am currently building and also the brief historical information they provide in the instruction manual it appears that the ZHL version is also based off of the 1669 version. The Mantua, de Ag and ZHL kits are all very similar in their look, so wouldn't be surprised if they were all based off of the 1669 version. All 3 models have 104 guns, so it rules them out for being the 1749 version.

Thanks
Brenton
 
Thanks Brenton
I believe you are correct: all 3 versions look to be the 1669 model.
By the way, do you maintain a log for your build?
I'll be starting mine in a couple of weeks.
 
Gilbertm said:
Hello all

I am considering building the Soleil Royal ship and making some investigations, I realize that there are 3 different ships under that name:
- Soleil Royal built in 1669 in the city of Brest by Laurent Hubac. The name was given as reference to Louis XIV who named himself "le roi Soleil". She had 104 guns (98 initially), was 200 ft long and was burnt at la Houghe battle in June 1692.
- Soleil Royal built in 1692 in the city of Brest by Blaise Pangalo. The initial name of this ship was le Foudroyant and she has been renamed as Soleil Royal in 1693. She had 104 guns, was 170ft long and under the order of Louis XIV was scuttled in the Toulon harbour in 1707 then destroyed in 1713.
- Soleil Royal built in 1749 in the city of Brest. She had 80 guns and was 194 feet long and was scuttled in 1759

My question is related to the various models that exist for this boat (Mantua, de Agostini, ZHL, may be others). It looks like the Mantua and the de Agostini models are based on the 1669 version. I am not sure about ZHL as their description is not very precise. Any clue here?

By the way are there differences between the 1669 and the 1692 ships?

I would be interested in reading input from those who have built or looked at this ship

Thanks
Click to expand...
Due to the fact, that the 1669 had the most interesting history and most of paintings etc. are showing this ship , the kit manufacturer are also presenting this version, also ZHL which is clearly describing it as the 1669 version

Le Soleil Royal 1669

www.zhlmodel.com www.zhlmodel.com

Let us take a look at the web-page Threedecks

Find a ship

Find vessels by name, rate, type, nationality, number of guns, builder or designer, shipyard or operational base, acquisition and dates
threedecks.org

Here the three ships are shown
a1.JPG

1669 110 guns
a21.JPG

a22.JPG

1693 - 104 guns
a31.JPG

a32.JPG

1749 - 80 guns
a41.JPG

a42.JPG
 
and what I completely forgot to mention:

A warm welcome here on board of our forum.
If you buy one of these kits - would be great to see your building log in our forum !!
 
Gilbertm said:
Thanks Brenton
I believe you are correct: all 3 versions look to be the 1669 model.
By the way, do you maintain a log for your build?
I'll be starting mine in a couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

I do have a build log here if you would like to have a look at it.

ZHL Soleil Royal - with some additions

Yes that’s right, its another ZHL Soleil Royal Build Log! Hi all, and welcome to my first build log here on SOS. Time for a little backstory. I’m primarily a plastic model builder, more specifically a sci-fi model builder but I bought the ZHL Black Pearl early last year to add to my stash of...
shipsofscale.com

It's my first wooden ship build, so I'm learning a lot. There are some other great builds on this site too for all 3 versions of the ship, just search for Soleil Royal in the search bar at the top and it will find them for you.

Also as Uwek has mentioned, welcome to the forum!
 
Hello Uwek, many thanks for your thorough answer and the reference to the "Find a ship" site
I'll definitely create a log book as soon as I get started.
 
Hello GilbertM,

All of the wooden Soleil Royal kits are approximately based on the Tanneron model at the Musee de la Marine, which is of the original Soleil Royal. The specific time period that that model represents, though, is unclear with even the museum acknowledging that it may represent her in her original incarnation, in 1669, or after her refit in 1689.

While Tanneron modeled an extremely tall stern with three open stern balconies and open quarter galleries - all consistent characteristics of the early First Marine ships (1666-1692) - the specific structure and styling of these elements is much more consistent with the later drawings for SR2, in 1693. I suspect that he did so because the reconcilliation between the stern and quarters of these 1693 drawings is significantly less fraught with conflicts, as opposed to the refit drawings of 1689.

Any effort to model Soleil Royal amounts to a reconciliation of fragmentary sources. As spectacular as it is, Tanneron’s effort is no different, in that regard.

While there are many problems with the Heller model, in plastic, it is nonetheless very closely based on Tanneron’s model. In my opinion, it offers the best platform for creating a credible model of SR1, but doing so will require a significant degree of modification.

I’ll look forward to watching you proceed.
 
Hello Hubac's Historian
Many thanks for your input.
I went to the web site of the Musée de la Marine in Paris and saw indeed pictures of the Soleil Royal built by Jean-Baptiste Taneron.
Very useful indeed.
I'll definitely go to the museum next time I am in Paris. The museum is currently closed for renovation.
 
Whatever you do, avoid the Mantua Soleil kit. I've done it and from what I've seen in forums here the ZHL kit looks superior. Good luck with your build.
 
I am not sure whether this is the Mantua or Sergal kit, but it is the best construction of a wooden Soleil Royal kit that I have yet found.

With some care and attention, these kits can be made into reasonably representative models of their time.

I suspect this builder spent some time re-shaping bulkheads for a better run of lines along the hull, his or her planking looks realistic, and a lot of time must have been spent reigning in the stern and quarter galleries to bring them into better proportion.

It is an example of what is possible:
FBB2D6BD-6A25-4122-8E0B-22BD8FA672FB.jpeg
CB71E6A6-79FB-4744-8366-344F7DE4C2BD.jpeg
3BB9C4A6-0227-4FF0-A824-D7CA8E4A7144.jpeg
 
hello hope you can hrlp me. i am looking for the size of the dummy guns on this model[ what is the barrel poundge]. thanks terry
 
So this is the 1669 Soleil Royal after the 1689 refit?
wooden-model-ship-kit-soleil-royal-172.jpg
 
That is what it is intended to represent, but really those are the 1693 replacement SR quarter galleries. Out of the box, the kit is a gross debasement of the epoch. You are well aware, though, of the magic that Nigel is working with this kit.
 
Forgive me for being so harsh, but I find this to be an infuriatingly lazy effort, considering the money at stake. They even had the audacity to juxtapose this thing next to Marc Yeu’s hand-drawn plan of the refit SR without his permission. They apologized for doing so, but really? As if the one had anything to do with the other.

It takes extreme talent, dedication and research to turn this into something worth spending your time and money on.
 
Hubac’s Historian said:
Forgive me for being so harsh, but I find this to be an infuriatingly lazy effort, considering the money at stake. They even had the audacity to juxtapose this thing next to Marc Yeu’s hand-drawn plan of the refit SR without his permission. They apologized for doing so, but really? As if the one had anything to do with the other.

It takes extreme talent, dedication and research to turn this into something worth spending your time and money on.
Click to expand...
I'm not following you, HH. You are referring to Artesania Latina's new Soleil Royal model?
 
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