Sovereign of the Seas - Sergal 1:78 (with hopefully many added details)

[Vfordyce]

That is correct for all large 17th century vessels when the foremast is located close to the front of the forecastle.

So the foremast base would be in the way of the bowsprit base otherwise?

 

[oldflyer]

Images rom McKay;

BTW: All Sovereign kits do not have the bowsprit mast offset - nor any other kit that I know of.
That has to be scratch modified. I have some notations of how I did that, if interested on page # 3 of this log. I also went back later and
redesigned that beakshead deck to what it is currently (gratings were also much out-of-scale).



Regards,

 

[Vfordyce]

Images rom McKay;

BTW: All Sovereign kits do not have the bowsprit mast offset - nor any other kit that I know of.
That has to be scratch modified. I have some notations of how I did that, if interested on page # 3 of this log. I also went back later and
redesigned that beakshead deck to what it is currently (gratings were also much out-of-scale).

View attachment 531848View attachment 531849

Regards,

Will you use gammoning, or is that what the deadeyes and lanyards are for?

 

[Vfordyce]

Thanks for putting up with the dumb questions, John. I went back to the beginning of the log and had some of my questions answered. Excellent work.

 

[rtwpsom2]

Will you use gammoning, or is that what the deadeyes and lanyards are for?

I'm pretty sure those deadeyes are on something akin to jib boom shrouds, meant to hold it down in the place of gammoning.

Also, John, I think check the drawings closely, I don't think said jib boom "shrouds" have deadeyes on both ends. The starboard side seems to be lashed directly to anchor points. And ratlines are only to port.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I'm pretty sure those deadeyes are on something akin to jib boom shrouds, meant to hold it down in the place of gammoning.

Also, John, I think check the drawings closely, I don't think said jib boom "shrouds" have deadeyes on both ends. The starboard side seems to be lashed directly to anchor points. And ratlines are only to port.

The Sovereign had gammoning as well. See below. I suspect the deadeyes were there to help support the weight of the huge beakhead this ship features, which harkens back to the Mediterranean galleas. The large, low beakhead was no longer in style soon after the Sovereign was built.


Galleas:

 

[oldflyer]

Yes, rtwpson2 you are indeed right. McKay’s image does (as others in the sbook) show deadeyes only on one side. Thanks for pointing that out.

When I first started this project, I looked at, and studied several images from other amazing builders, and from two of whom, Doris O, and Janos, I noted that they added deadeyes to both sides. I also looked at several museum examples noting the same.

The beautiful example from Ed Marple, that is on permanent display at the Channel Islands Maritime Museum, Oxnard CA also follows the same two sides protocol. So, I stopped looking and just planned to emulated that detail.

BUT, Rtwpson2 to your point, I again got curious, and looking at contemporary paintings and drawings it does appear, in at least one that deadeyes are certainly only on one side. And Kurt's attached image indeed has deadeyes only one side per that particular view.

So, in closing McKay’s renderings are probably most likely the correct course of action for an easy fix.

Rtwpsone, and Kurt, thanks for your help --- your threads were a big help!!!!

Blurry image from an old Doris O. 10 year old youtube video - detail of area.

Regards,

 

[Vfordyce]

So, will you do gammoning as well?

 

[oldflyer]

Yes -

 

[Vfordyce]

Does it fasten to the beak head at an angle? I hope that is not a stupid question.

 

[oldflyer]

Vic,
1st no question is "stupid" So appreciate your interest in this log.Thank you.

To your very legit question as you've probably noted some gammoning ropes are angled to adjust to mast angles.
I will attach mine vertically lanyards as well.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Payne also shows only one lashing for gammoning, Van de Velde two lashings. It is possible that the second gammoning was added at the 1558-1660 refit of the Sovereign. As for the beakhead supporting lines, only one set of deadeyes is required for them to perform their function, as Payne indicates.

The unknown picture you posted is Henry Culver's model on display in Annapolis, Maryland at the U.S. Naval Academy museum.

 

[Steven B]

Here is a close up of the Naval Academy’s model

 

[rtwpsom2]

Here's an even closer up.



sorry, I really have no excuse for myself sometimes

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

So the foremast base would be in the way of the bowsprit base otherwise?

Definitely. The bowsprit went alongside the foremast on these early ships. Here is an example of that feature in a typical galleon.

 

[oldflyer]

Hi,
Various images with some notations of the several variations;

Gammoning attachment variants;


Mast not offset;
Sir Robert Sepping

I


I will continue with my original set up - also my beakhead deck is set for that as well two spools of gammoning.
THANKS for all of your help and suggestions - I did make changes to the lanyards - good idea. Though we've all seen deadeyes on both sides as well



Cheers,

 

[oldflyer]

Here's an even closer up.

View attachment 532335

sorry, I really have no excuse for myself sometimes

Oh thanks rtwpsom2 your image was indeed the most useful that must have been fun as well -

 

[Phillipsart]

I’m following this build with interest. I’ve got an opportunity to continue a build that’s has the hull mostly completed. Looks to me only has mast and rigging to complete.

Should have it in a couple days.

 

[oldflyer]

Hi all,
Kurt as always -- thank so much for your very knowledgeable posts.

Phillip thanks as well - very happy to have you aboard. Yes, great opportunity for you.
From what kit? and will you create a build log? regarding this ship many experts here will be so willing to help as well.
-----------
First set of gammonings are done. Finally -- and STILL all LED's are still operational - what a relief.
I have a short video of the perfect 27k flickering lights on my iPhone, but cannot load it here at SoS --- hhmm?

Thanks so much for the likes, or just for dropping by for a look, as well as the so helpful comments

Regards,

 

[Phillipsart]

Same kit I believe that you have here. Here is an image of it. I’m also working on building the hms Victory from Mantua.