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Sticks or no sticks

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MDB

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I'm building the Beagle as my first ship, im a little ways into building masts and sticks and watching as many videos as possible.
I've noticed that some modelers start the rigging without adding the yards while some add the yards to the mast and then start the rigging, what would you recommend i do ?
 
I would suggest leaving the yards off until the masts and standing rigging are complete but make sure to include all the blocks for the yard lifts and halliards on the masts. If sails are included it is definitely easier to lace these to the yards on the bench. The direct contact between yard and mast is usually limited to a rope strop - maybe with parrel beads. I have occasionally 'cheated and drilled fine holes in masts and yards to receive a pin (permanently or temporarily) to hold them in place while the other gubbins are attached.
 
Short John Bronze said:
I would suggest leaving the yards off until the masts and standing rigging are complete but make sure to include all the blocks for the yard lifts and halliards on the masts. If sails are included it is definitely easier to lace these to the yards on the bench. The direct contact between yard and mast is usually limited to a rope strop - maybe with parrel beads. I have occasionally 'cheated and drilled fine holes in masts and yards to receive a pin (permanently or temporarily) to hold them in place while the other gubbins are attached.
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Thanks for the reply

I will definitely do it that way then, on the subject of sails do you have to shape them so it looks like they have cought the wind or will the rigging do most of that
 
After installation of all sails and rigging I find that spraying with fabric stiffener or UNSCENTED! hairspray then blasting with a hair dryer produces a satisfactory effect. On some models I have deviated from the boring 'wind dead aft' arrangement by angling the yards to catch wind from the quarter. It reduces shelf width requirements.
 
Short John Bronze said:
After installation of all sails and rigging I find that spraying with fabric stiffener or UNSCENTED! hairspray then blasting with a hair dryer produces a satisfactory effect. On some models I have deviated from the boring 'wind dead aft' arrangement by angling the yards to catch wind from the quarter. It reduces shelf width requirements.
Click to expand...

Just something to keep in mind when trying to model billowing sails. When a sail is full of wind and bellied, it is putting constant tension on the sheet lines. In a model, for the topsails and above, this isn't too much of a problem, because the sheets usually go through a block on the yard below right at the foot of the sail. However, the course (lowest) sails are usually sheeted to a pin rail or directly to the side railing - quite a distance from the foot of the sail. So, unless you use lines with a fine music wire core that are stiff, you'll never be able to achieve a realistic look with the sheets because the more you pull it to get it taut, the more it just pulls the sail back and it will still hang limply.
 
MDB said:
Would waxing or varnishing the lines help ?
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Waxing probably won't do much. Varnishing might be worth a try, however. This is where some testing would be in order, because you also don't want those lines to have a noticeably different surface finish as the rest of the rigging.
 
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MDB said:
so it looks like they have cought the wind
Click to expand...
You may want to consider replacing cloth sails with silk span. It can be laid over a form in its raw form then given the normal coat of matte medium and it will hold its shape once dry. The problem with the rigging though remains as wisely pointed out by Russ. There is a $5 booklet on making sails with silk span as well as excellent video on the internet by Tom Lauria.
Allan
 
This is why you don't see a lot of models with full sails - they almost impossible to model realistically. Plus, they hide a lot of the hard work you put into the running rigging. If you want to include sails and have all the running rigging visible, consider displaying with yards lowered and sails furled.

1749666128623.png

This is a model of Moshulu from the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich, London. The real ship is currently a restaurant in Philadelphia on the Delaware River which I had the pleasure of dining aboard over this lase Memorial Day weekend.
 
RussF said:
Just something to keep in mind when trying to model billowing sails. When a sail is full of wind and bellied, it is putting constant tension on the sheet lines. In a model, for the topsails and above, this isn't too much of a problem, because the sheets usually go through a block on the yard below right at the foot of the sail. However, the course (lowest) sails are usually sheeted to a pin rail or directly to the side railing - quite a distance from the foot of the sail. So, unless you use lines with a fine music wire core that are stiff, you'll never be able to achieve a realistic look with the sheets because the more you pull it to get it taut, the more it just pulls the sail back and it will still hang limply.
Click to expand...
Perhaps a wire concealed in the hem at the foot of the courses would stop them being pulled in by the sheets. Combined with your suggestion of wired sheets for a belt and braces solution.
 
Short John Bronze said:
I would suggest leaving the yards off until the masts and standing rigging are complete but make sure to include all the blocks for the yard lifts and halliards on the masts. If sails are included it is definitely easier to lace these to the yards on the bench. The direct contact between yard and mast is usually limited to a rope strop - maybe with parrel beads. I have occasionally 'cheated and drilled fine holes in masts and yards to receive a pin (permanently or temporarily) to hold them in place while the other gubbins are attached.
Click to expand...
Ok Short John, what the heck is a "gubbin?"
 
Norgale said:
Ok Short John, what the heck is a "gubbin?"
Click to expand...
"Gubbins" is a British English slang term, typically used informally, to refer to a collection of miscellaneous items, gadgets, or odds and ends. It can also be used to describe something of little value or even a foolish or silly person.
 
RussF said:
"Gubbins" is a British English slang term, typically used informally, to refer to a collection of miscellaneous items, gadgets, or odds and ends. It can also be used to describe something of little value or even a foolish or silly person.
Click to expand...
Sorry to have gone a bit local. What is your equivalent at the other end of the Mayflower's journey?
 
Short John Bronze said:
After installation of all sails and rigging I find that spraying with fabric stiffener or UNSCENTED! hairspray then blasting with a hair dryer produces a satisfactory effect. On some models I have deviated from the boring 'wind dead aft' arrangement by angling the yards to catch wind from the quarter. It reduces shelf width requirements.
Click to expand...
What a great idea! do you have pictures of the results you can share?
 
Gubbins.
fragments of wood, lumps of iron ore, wild folk of Dartmoor, country fellows, a bit of Cheshire (A UK county)

take your pick. in more modern usage it is a collective noun usually applied to mechanisms when a detailed description is not required, such as 'the bonnet covers the gubbins'. which, for US listeners, would translate into 'the engine is under the hood' - interesting that we refer to the engine cover of a car as a 'bonnet' where you would say 'hood' - both articles of female head coverings.

Jim. fascinated by dialects and accents.

The EDD (English Dialect Dictionary, 1894) gives
1. GUBBINS, sb. pl. Dev. [girbinz.] A nickname given
to the natives of Dartmoor.
Dev. Horae Subsecivae (1777) 193; They still have the reputation
of having been a wild and almost savage race, Bray Desc. Tamar
and the Tavy (1836) I. Lett. xiv; The race of ‘Gubbins,’ as old
Fuller calls them, may die out, Cornh. Mag. (Nov. 1887) 508.

2. GOBBIN, sb.2 and adj. n.Cy. Lan. Chs. Der. Suf. Also
in forms goblin Chs.1; gubbins e.Suf. [go·bin.] 1. sb.
An ignorant or clownish person; a country fellow.
n.Cy. Grose (1790). Lan. Th' gobbin nere consithert at hangin
wudno be coed good spwort, Tim Bobbin View Dial. (1740) 38;
But when the singing started I stood just like o gobbin, Gaskel
Comic Sngs. (1841) 26; Lan.1, m.Lan.1, nw.Der.1, e.Suf. (F.H.)
Hence Gobbinshire, sb. an old name for a portion of
West Cheshire; see below.
Chs.1 Gobbinshire seems to have included Saughall, Shotwick,
Ness, Neston, and the hamlets on the north shore of the Dee to
the borders, perhaps, of Backford. It has been suggested that
the name means Gawbyshire, because forty or fifty years ago the
residents there were out of the ordinary run of mortals, and the
lubberly boys and girls who came from those places to Chester at
Christmas for their annual hiring used to be called, and in fact
were, ‘country gawbies.’ s.Chs.1 This word only survives in
s.Chs. in the following rhyme: ‘Gob·inshŭr, Gob·inshŭr, frŭm
Gob·inshŭr Greyn, Dhŭ rongk·ist uwd beg·ŭr ŭz ev·ŭr wŭz seyn’
[Gobbinshire, Gobbinshire, from Gobbinshire Green, The ronkest
owd beggar as ever was seen].
2. A spoilt child. Der.2, nw.Der.1 3. adj. Uncouth,
lubberly. Chs.1

3
GUBBIN(G)S, sb. pl. Shr. Suf. Dev. [gɐ·binz.]
1. The shavings of fish; offal, refuse.
Dev. D. & G. Wds. (1893) (s.v. Gubbarn). n.Dev. We call the
shavings of fish (which are little worth) gubbings, Kingsley Westward
Ho (1855) 112, ed. 1889.
2. Fragments of wood. e.Suf. (F.H.)
3. Lumps of iron ore.
Shr. ‘Newmine, gubbins, blue-flats, and black-jacks.’ All local
names for lumps of iron ore, White Wrekin (1860) xxvi.
[1. Gubbings, Opsoniorum praesegmina, Coles (1679).]
 
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