The Schooner Bluenose Plans discrepancies - which is most accurate?

[Trunnels]

Robert,
Wow, That would be awesome to see a copy of L. B. Jenson's larger plans in fourteen plates. Would it be possible to get reproductions? Or even photos? What a great asset to building a model they would be.

 

[Robert Halliday]

Robert,
Wow, That would be awesome to see a copy of L. B. Jenson's larger plans in fourteen plates. Would it be possible to get reproductions? Or even photos? What a great asset to building a model they would be.

Hi Trunnels
I will not have access to these plans until this coming summer so I will see if I can get photos of them for you. They are protected by copyright so reproductions would not be possible. There were a limited number of these plates produced so they are quite valuable.

 

[Squarebriggs]

I have a set of the Jenson Portfolio, a Fathers Day gift from my wife the year they were released. I also have a copy of the smaller version, Bluenose II, Saga of the Great Fishing Schooner. Better than that, I have many photos of my many visits aboard her, Bluenose II. The attached photo that I took of her entering the Miramichi River clearly shows the slight knee in her bow, a distinguishing factor when comparing her to other schooners of her day. I will look to see if I have a clear shot of her stern transom, most of the ones I have on hand have people in the way and are not clear enough. I will offer a shot of Jenson's Portfolio regarding the draught of her stern.

Bob

 

[NovaStorm]

There are so many photo's of Bluenose out there it shouldn't be to hard to come up with what she looked like. Bluenose II is different in many ways from what I have been told. Mind you that is just someone's opinion...
Second pic, I hdr to bring out the detail ~

 

[Trunnels]

Great pictures. Look at the size of these scuppers. In the sketch above they look like they are open the full distance between the stanchions. I thought they were a smaller opening on each side of the stanchions. And in the picture below, what is going on in the circled area? At first I thought it was a little door into the steerer housing. but on closer inspection, it looks like a book sitting in front of the steerer housing(???), because you can see the deck behind it. Fascinating photos. You answer one question and you find three more.

I just love that photo of the stern, she is a real working boat.

 

[David Lester]

I think if you check the posting above by Squarebriggs, you'll see that the diagram is actually of the Bluenose II, not the Bluenose -


definitely much smaller ones on the original Bluenose -


Also, I have no idea what the circled item is in front of the wheel, but I don't think it's a permanent fixture. Here's another picture where it's missing:


Interesting and fun to examine these old pictures.
David

 

[mrshanks]

Yes, David is correct. There are many subtle but distinct differences between Bluenose and Bluenose II. Need to be careful of drawings and photos.

 

[NovaStorm]

You answer one question and you find three more.

Interesting and fun to examine these old pictures.

David is correct the scuppers on Bluenose were much smaller just like in his second pic.

But personally I am not convinced that the second pic David put up is the Bluenose! I could be completely wrong and I hope not to offend anyone. I know it is published by the gov. as such and taken by MacAskill. I also know there is one other photo taken the same day, same photog, also published as such but here is why I am not sure. The crowd prevents you from seeing any positively identifiable onboard items. Two things on the outboard side bother me. One the mini rail on top of the stern rail-monkey rail. Two the hull paint does not come up even with the top edge of the rail. The white painted rail continues over and around the lip. Both that mini rail and painted edge look worn enough that you would expect to find them in many photos of the Bluenose. They are not. Also it is totally possible MacAskill or someone else could have inadvertently misfiled it as Bluenose. I wrote the gov about this back when I was doing my own research but got no response lol.

Just saying the mystery continues

 

[David Lester]

That's in interesting observation. The plans with the kit indicate that the outer edges of the rails should be black and only the top surfaces white. However when looking at the old black and white photos it's can be hard to tell what you're looking at. It sometimes seems that the pictures are not consistent, but it's hard to know for sure if they really are inconsistent, which would mean it was painted differently at different times, or if it's just the way the light is hitting surfaces and either reflecting or not reflecting. Anyway, it's very interesting.

David

 

[NovaStorm]

However when looking at the old black and white photos it's can be hard to tell what you're looking at. It sometimes seems that the pictures are not consistent, but it's hard to know for sure if they really are inconsistent, which would mean it was painted differently at different times, or if it's just the way the light is hitting surfaces and either reflecting or not reflecting.

So true David, one thing I did find when I did my research was "at times" it was like this "at times" it was like making it really next to impossible to know for sure. The mini rail tho in that paticular pic is what has me scratching my head. But again maybe they stuck it on there for all those landlubbers to hang onto and took it off at the end of the day. It is a fasinating ship with an incredible history anyway you look at it, that is for sure! Cheers ~

 

[David Lester]

I really think you must be right about that particular picture not being the Bluenose. In other pictures where we know for sure it's the Bluenose that little railing is not there, such as this one below. I thought I had examined all these pictures pretty well, but had not caught that detail!

 

[NovaStorm]

Yes David, I just can't imagine that rail not showing up except in one other pick I have seen taken the same day only from onboard. In that one it is a shot taken near the stern on the starboard side looking forward and again you can't see through the people at any distingushing features onboard but you can see that little rail clearly and it is worn enough you would think it would be in other pics. I even studied the people onboard trying to identify someone from the crew with no luck lol. That was when I sent a email off to the archives suggesting they may want to review those two shots. In a building I manage and live in there are probably a hundred pictures of the original Bluenose. Most of my residents are elderly and retired and have many original MacAskills etc. I have never seen that rail in any of them or in any other online pics except those two taken on the same day. I wouldn't care if I was wrong and it is the Bluenose either. But If I am right I kinda wish the government wouldn't use it on there site as it can be confusing to us diehards.
Just so you know as you mentioned earlier about looking at pics. In the pic above taken at her launch, at first glance it looks like the rail is painted white over the lip! In fact it is not though, it is the suns reflection off the black paint. God I'm sick when it comes to this stuff lol.

 

[crawfordwilson3]

This is exactly what I was looking for! This website rocks!

 

[Robert Halliday]

I am so pleased to have a copy of L. B. Jenson’s large plans. From these I have created an artistic print of the schooler in detail using a CAD 3D program. I get these printed at an upscale art printing company which uses ink rather than toner and are printed on acid free paper. The pint has been a hit with some people from Lunenburg ant I only charge $175. I will include a photo of the print but do not reproduce as it is copyright protected.

 

[Peter Voogt]

I am so pleased to have a copy of L. B. Jenson’s large plans. From these I have created an artistic print of the schooler in detail using a CAD 3D program. I get these printed at an upscale art printing company which uses ink rather than toner and are printed on acid free paper. The pint has been a hit with some people from Lunenburg ant I only charge $175. I will include a photo of the print but do not reproduce as it is copyright protected.

View attachment 318489

That’s a nice drawing, Robert.
Regards, Peter

 

[rtwpsom2]

Very late to the thread here, but in my research I came across the W. J. Roué collection at historymuseum.ca. They have some low res scans of the original Roué drawings posted that show the stem's shape pretty clearly. Especially this one which includes dimensions:

I think it is pretty clear there isn't a "knee" in the stem.

Here are the other two images that were posted:



I have sent an inquiry to the museum to see if these are available to purchase in higher resolution by the public.

 

[RDN1954]

Very late to the thread here, but in my research I came across the W. J. Roué collection at historymuseum.ca. They have some low res scans of the original Roué drawings posted that show the stem's shape pretty clearly. Especially this one which includes dimensions:
View attachment 359848
I think it is pretty clear there isn't a "knee" in the stem.

Here are the other two images that were posted:

View attachment 359846View attachment 359847

I have sent an inquiry to the museum to see if these are available to purchase in higher resolution by the public.

One of my grievances with the YQ-kit is the IMHO too distinct knee in the bow. The drawings you found clearly show a much more pleasing curvature of the keel.
A lot has already been written about the authenticity of the information available, with quite a few unknowns.
I'm inclined to argue that drawings from Roué, going back to the time the Bluenose I was build, should be best reflecting the original as-build configuration.
All information, dating from more recent years, should be regarded as informative.

Kind regards,

Johan

 

[jimcarwardine]

Late to the discussion, sorry… In addition to the bow shape, I found another discrepancy in the sails, comparing Jenson to an original Roué drawing of the sail plan copied in the early 1969’s with Roué’s signature. It’s my understanding that Roué approved the added 18” to the bow… Joan Roué, Roué’s granddaughter, has the original drawings, donated to the museum but unavailable due to caveats she placed on them where she retains ownership. The sail plan I used, I believe, came from a collection I acquired at an antique store, including a model of the Bluenose made by William Morrow, former President of Atlantic Seafoods of Lunenburg, don’t know how long ago.

 

[RDN1954]

Late to the discussion, sorry… In addition to the bow shape, I found another discrepancy in the sails, comparing Jenson to an original Roué drawing of the sail plan copied in the early 1969’s with Roué’s signature. It’s my understanding that Roué approved the added 18” to the bow… Joan Roué, Roué’s granddaughter, has the original drawings, donated to the museum but unavailable due to caveats she placed on them where she retains ownership. The sail plan I used, I believe, came from a collection I acquired at an antique store, including a model of the Bluenose made by William Morrow, former President of Atlantic Seafoods of Lunenburg, don’t know how long ago.

Hey Jim,
Thanks for your inputs on the build information of the Bluenose and more specific on the sail plans.
With respect to these plans, I am of the opinion that any available plan will not show the sail plan, with which the Bluenose I started her journey in 1921. That honor will go to the original, early 20th century Roué-drawings.
I also think it is highly probable that actual sail plans might have been dependent on personal preferences of the subsequent captains of the Bluenose I.
Not sure where or how I got the image, but attached you should find a sail plan, apparently signed by Roué in 1922.

 

[jimcarwardine]

Hey Jim,
Thanks for your inputs on the build information of the Bluenose and more specific on the sail plans.
With respect to these plans, I am of the opinion that any available plan will not show the sail plan, with which the Bluenose I started her journey in 1921. That honor will go to the original, early 20th century Roué-drawings.
I also think it is highly probable that actual sail plans might have been dependent on personal preferences of the subsequent captains of the Bluenose I.
Not sure where or how I got the image, but attached you should find a sail plan, apparently signed by Roué in 1922.

View attachment 598698

That’s the copy I have full size from 1961. There is slso a BN model in the museum in Lunenburg made by a crewman on the original BN. Here’s some photos I took I believe is of that model…

iCloud Photos - Apple iCloud

View, organize, and share photos and videos with iCloud Photos on the web. Changes will sync across your devices with iCloud.

share.icloud.com

The video is my Morrow model which I painted the starboard side in original colours. The original model confirms the discussion of the stern and rudder to some degree…