To show nails or not to show nails...

Jack Sparrow

Jack Sparrow

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I was reading a post on a facebook group that I am a member of and the author made a couple of good points about how nails should be represented on copper plates as follows:

According to the author, the nail heads on the original ships were about 1/4" wide and were spaced about 2 to 4 inches apart. This makes it quite difficult, if not impossible, to represent them to scale on the ship model.

Assuming my math is correct, lol:

so let's say i have a scale of 1:48 and the nails are spaced 4 inches apart.
Then, 4/12 = .333 ft
so, 1:48 => x:0.33
ie. x= 0.33/48 ft
hence, x= 0.0825 inches which is about 1/12th of an inch.

The author also commented that the nails were countersunk into the copper plates so representing the nails as bumps on the model's copper plates is not accurate.

What do you think?
 
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There are very good and informative photos in the web, f.e. from the copper plating of the USS Constitution

ussconstitutionmuseum.org

New Copper Sheathing - USS Constitution Museum

England’s Royal Navy began experimenting with copper-cladding its warships in the early 1760s and found it extended the life of the ships by preventing boring. . .
ussconstitutionmuseum.org ussconstitutionmuseum.org

EV2015-239-first-copper-removal-1024x683.jpg IMG_7603-1024x683.jpg

IMG_7696-1024x754.jpg

or from the HMS Victory


Cooper-sheathing.png
The remains of an early-19th century wooden ship, discovered in 2012 at a depth of 4,000 feet (1,200 m) in the Gulf of Mexico by the NOAAS Okeanos Explorer. Most of the timber has disintegrated, leaving behind the copper sheathing which has preserved the form of the hull

en.wikipedia.org

Copper sheathing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
I think they're countersunk by just the fact that nails were hammered into copper over wood. 1/12 of an inch so on a 1" plate you'd have 12 nails going across. Nothing is impossible. In one of Dr Mikes vids they talk about a builder that nailed every plate on a Cutty Sark, the modeler has passed away but its been done.
 
tonphil1960 said:
I think they're countersunk by just the fact that nails were hammered into copper over wood. 1/12 of an inch so on a 1" plate you'd have 12 nails going across. Nothing is impossible. In one of Dr Mikes vids they talk about a builder that nailed every plate on a Cutty Sark, the modeler has passed away but its been done.
Click to expand...
Good point.
 
The underside of the nails was beveled. So, pounding them in would create a dimple and leave the nail head relatively flush with the surface.
 
Jack Sparrow said:
I was reading a post on a facebook group that I am a member of and the author made a couple of good points about how nails should be represented on copper plates as follows:

According to the author, the nail heads on the original ships were about 1/4" wide and were spaced about 2 to 4 inches apart. This makes it quite difficult, if not impossible, to represent them to scale on the ship model.

Assuming my math is correct, lol:

so let's say i have a scale of 1:48 and the nails are spaced 4 inches apart.
Then, 4/12 = .333 ft
so, 1:48 => x:0.33
ie. x= 0.33/48 ft
hence, x= 0.0825 inches which is about 1/12th of an inch.

The author also commented that the nails were countersunk into the copper plates so representing the nails as bumps on the model's copper plates is not accurate.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
There is a sample of copper sheathing (about 3' x 5') in the ropewalk exhibit at Mystic Seaport, Conn (I beleive you can also find it on the internet). If I recollect properly, the nail heads were more like 1 inch in diameter. a quarter of an inch diameter would provide very little surface area to keep the plate from tearing off. I would double check my dimensions before I did any work on a model.
 
Yes, you are right, it is an inch. I think I rushed my post and used 1/4" as the nail head size. My point was that you could not see the nail heads in the copper tiles at a scale of 1/72. An inch in 1/72nd scale is just less than 1/64th of an inch in real size. Just not practical to try and replicate something small.
 
richardjjs said:
but something is needed to stop it looking plain.
Loke all modelling youve got to compromise its called artistic licence it needs something to make it look right
Click to expand...
For me, the patina the copper gets over time keeps it from being "plain". The rainbow effect of the patina is quite fascinating. I agree to some extent with the artistic license. It is different for everyone. And sometimes you have to indulge in it. In this case, to me, keeping everything in scale to the extent that I can is more important than taking artistic license into consideration.
 
tonphil1960 said:
I think they're countersunk by just the fact that nails were hammered into copper over wood. 1/12 of an inch so on a 1" plate you'd have 12 nails going across. Nothing is impossible. In one of Dr Mikes vids they talk about a builder that nailed every plate on a Cutty Sark, the modeler has passed away but its been done.
Click to expand...
I did the same on my Victory.
 
Jack Sparrow said:
I was reading a post on a facebook group that I am a member of and the author made a couple of good points about how nails should be represented on copper plates as follows:

According to the author, the nail heads on the original ships were about 1/4" wide and were spaced about 2 to 4 inches apart. This makes it quite difficult, if not impossible, to represent them to scale on the ship model.

Assuming my math is correct, lol:

so let's say i have a scale of 1:48 and the nails are spaced 4 inches apart.
Then, 4/12 = .333 ft
so, 1:48 => x:0.33
ie. x= 0.33/48 ft
hence, x= 0.0825 inches which is about 1/12th of an inch.

The author also commented that the nails were countersunk into the copper plates so representing the nails as bumps on the model's copper plates is not accurate.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
I made mine from copper wire.
 
I made a stamp to impress the "nails" into each copper piece, which was peel-and-stick, uncoated, from an electrical supply and cost about half as the same stuff with "model boat" in the title (in 2010).
con20100529a.jpg con20100615c.jpg

Pressing them onto the hull (which I painted copper, just-in-case) pushes the dimples back out creating a little ring that basically looks like a counter-sunk nail head, to my eye at least.
con20100602g.jpg con20100801b.jpg

This is an RC sailing model, so some copper was put on a card and left outside for a couple of weeks to see how it weathered. The next pic is 12 years later, after having sailed in salt water, and pool water. Notice except for a couple of spots, it's not green.
con20100821b.jpg con20220604d.jpg
 
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I haven't been posting here for some time due to the old pic posting process. Now I posted twice, go figure. I am 81 now and still building.In fact, I have 4 models underway right now. The ship above was built between 1976-2000 with 5,500 to 6,000 hours of building time involved plus research time which in those before the internet you had to dig out yourself I used Longridge mostly and Hackney for the rigging. I coppered my model with plates and nails I made myself.
 
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