Trim top of plank, or bottom?

[BarnegatBay]

This concerns basic planking technique for POB kits with supplied planks. I am a beginner ship model maker.
I understand the basic technique of working out how much to trim off each plank along the bulkheads. Working through that now on my Mamoli Catalina kit.
However, I have two references for basic planking. One says ALWAYS trim off from the top of the plank; one says ALWAYS from the bottom.

Is one of these references wrong, or maybe it does not matter as long as you try to do it consistently.

I realize planking method is a large and complex part of the hobby with many approaches, but here I am just getting started and already getting two opposite directions.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Y.T.]

I think idea is as you said to have all subsequent planks to be trimmed consistently either from top or from the bottom. Otherwise you will find some gaps between the planks which you would have a problem with.

 

[Bob Cleek]

Are you talking about the "top of the plank" and the "bottom of the plank" when the hull is being planked while upside down or while right side up?

Just pulling your leg. Welcome to the world of kit building!

If you want to finish your hull "bright" with the wood grain showing (as no period sailing ship was finished ever... but now seems to be in style among some,) you should line off your planking runs completely and spile each plank as in standard carvel planking construction practice. This will require that both the top and bottom edges of each plank be shaped as required to produce a fair planking run. As each plank narrows or widens according to the hull shape, it narrows or widens equally in relation to the center point of the plank's width at any given point on its length. Other than at the keel rabbet, you won't find a straight line between planks in a shapely hull, however, in a large vessel, there will be lots of long runs of parallel-sided planking where the sides of the hull are flat. In those instances, "trimming" doesn't enter into it.

If you are going to paint the hull, it doesn't much matter at all what the "planking" looks like at all because nobody's going to ever see it. You can make a dog's breakfast of it and then fill in all the gaps with Bondo or any kind of fairing putty and sand it fair. After a good paint job, it will look perfect.

I really don't understand what either reference work you've mentioned is talking about when they say "only shape one edge of a plank and leave the other straight." I suspect they do not intend the planking seams to bear any relationship to actual full-size carvel planking construction.

 

[BarnegatBay]

I think idea is as you said to have all subsequent planks to be trimmed consistently either from top or from the bottom. Otherwise you will find some gaps between the planks which you would have a problem with.

Thank you.

 

[AllanKP69]

If you look at some planking expansion drawings you will see no hull plank has a straight edge on either the top or bottom. This applies to the how a ship was planked, but for a model, as mentioned above, if you are going to cover the planking with paint, there is a lot more leeway. If the wood is to be left exposed, there are good planking tutorials mentioned a number of times here at SoS that will walk you through the process.
Allan

 

[Short John Bronze]

I always taper and chamfer the edge of the plank that will contact the previous plank so as to test the result in a dry fit. So "top" or "bottom" depends on which sequence I am adding planks.

 

[BarnegatBay]

Are you talking about the "top of the plank" and the "bottom of the plank" when the hull is being planked while upside down or while right side up?

Just pulling your leg. Welcome to the world of kit building!

If you want to finish your hull "bright" with the wood grain showing (as no period sailing ship was finished ever... but now seems to be in style among some,) you should line off your planking runs completely and spile each plank as in standard carvel planking construction practice. This will require that both the top and bottom edges of each plank be shaped as required to produce a fair planking run. As each plank narrows or widens according to the hull shape, it narrows or widens equally in relation to the center point of the plank's width at any given point on its length. Other than at the keel rabbet, you won't find a straight line between planks in a shapely hull, however, in a large vessel, there will be lots of long runs of parallel-sided planking where the sides of the hull are flat. In those instances, "trimming" doesn't enter into it.

If you are going to paint the hull, it doesn't much matter at all what the "planking" looks like at all because nobody's going to ever see it. You can make a dog's breakfast of it and then fill in all the gaps with Bondo or any kind of fairing putty and sand it fair. After a good paint job, it will look perfect.

I really don't understand what either reference work you've mentioned is talking about when they say "only shape one edge of a plank and leave the other straight." I suspect they do not intend the planking seams to bear any relationship to actual full-size carvel planking construction.

Thank you for the reply.
I've researched enough to know that planking is the common crux of this hobby. And you are right, I should have noted hull orientation, even though you were joking around.
So now you are suggesting 'spiling' top and bottom as in full-size shipbuilding as the only authentic method. I think I realize what you are saying is an ideal; most smaller scale kits do not expect that to be done in practicality, and can still be beautifully finished models (if not museum quality).
The references I mentioned are meant to be practical and not ideal.
One of them is the common:
SIMPLE HULL PLANKING TECHNIQUES FOR BEGINNERS, Written, illustrated & edited by: Dirk De Bakker (kelvin12) and Greg Brooker (gregb) With assistance from Dave Rogers (heliman41)
They admit to model hull planking (as commonly practiced) only creating a visual approximation to the "real thing".

 

[BarnegatBay]

I always taper and chamfer the edge of the plank that will contact the previous plank so as to test the result in a dry fit. So "top" or "bottom" depends on which sequence I am adding planks.

I think you solved my question. Of course!

 

[Darryl]

This concerns basic planking technique for POB kits with supplied planks. I am a beginner ship model maker.
I understand the basic technique of working out how much to trim off each plank along the bulkheads. Working through that now on my Mamoli Catalina kit.
However, I have two references for basic planking. One says ALWAYS trim off from the top of the plank; one says ALWAYS from the bottom.

Is one of these references wrong, or maybe it does not matter as long as you try to do it consistently.

I realize planking method is a large and complex part of the hobby with many approaches, but here I am just getting started and already getting two opposite directions.

Thanks for any advice.

I too am new to ship modeling, I find strip planking to be creative and subject to trial and error, requiring lots of patience and researching different techniques by experienced modelers on this forum, but like all craftsmanship endeavors the final reward is most satisfying, Darryl

 

[Darryl]

 

[AllanKP69]

I think I realize what you are saying is an ideal; most smaller scale kits do not expect that to be done in practicality, and can still be beautifully finished models (

I respectfully disagree. The majority of kit planking fails to have the planking end at the rabbet as it should, but instead many come to a point which was never done on a ship. The photo above is a good example of how many are planked with little or no tapering of the breadth, especially at the bow area leaving no room for full length strakes. Spiling planks on a 1:32 scale or smaller is actually easier the smaller it gets. See attached article by David Antscherl on spiling planks. Alternatively you can cut the planks to the breadth needed at each bulkhead/frame, soak it to loosen the cellulose fiber compounds and bend around a form then heat it or let it air dry. the curve of which matches the paper template. The presence of water essentially weakens the bonds that hold the wood fibers together, making them easier to change shape. A good four part video that helps learn good planking techniques at the most difficult area, the bow, can be found on-line.

Planking has been a nightmare at times for most of us, but practice and good methodology work wonders.

Allan

 

[Short John Bronze]

Some Musings.
To vary the routine process of hull planking, when I built "Revenge"I cut spiled planks from a sheet of 1mm thick walnut. The planks were shaped to simulate lateral bending so that when fitted to the hull the seams ran parallel to the keel and the planks arrived at the bow with their full width. Of course the grain of the wood did not remain parallel to the edges but not too conspicuously.
I guess in a real ship build the planks are sufficiently thick to bend laterally without kinking the way ship model planking strips would.
It seems to be a given that kit model planks are 5 or 6 mm wide. I wonder what would be possible if the planks were only 4 mm wide but 2mm thick? Would a greater degree lateral bending be possible? Would the width appear out of scale? Perhaps some experimentation is called for.

PS
I have found a website that reports the planking on HMS victory to be 9 inches wide which at 1:72 would be 3mm. Many more planks to fit but possibly easier.

 

[Bob Cleek]

I guess in a real ship build the planks are sufficiently thick to bend laterally without kinking the way ship model planking strips would.

You've guessed wrong. Planking should never be "edge set" and rarely is in full-scale construction. First, it's impossible to bend full-scale plank stock across its width for anything close to as radical a bend as some advocates of the heat-bending planking modeling fraternity advocate. On occasion, in substandard construction, a sloppy shipwright will edge set a plank by a quarter inch across a full plank's run, but it's a sign of shoddy construction and, when done, is usually done on the sly. In full-sized construction, planking shapes are spiled and cut from flat planking stock so that the plank will easily bend across its long dimension and fall perfectly in place on the planking schedule, rather than having to be tortured into shape.

Some species of modeling wood in smaller dimensions can be bent across their width and radically edge set. This practice permits avoiding some waste. It works on a model because the wood is so narrow and thin. To my taste, I believe spiling the planks on a planked model, as in full-size practice, is actually less work than heat bending it to radically edge set it. The full-size planking approach may occasion greater offcut waste, which is likely why some kit manufacturers promote heat bending planks across their wider dimension. Allan's planking diagram for Sphinx, above, illustrates what planking looks like in real life. If a model purporting to depict carvel plank seams doesn't look like this, that is a defect in the accuracy, and hence, the quality, of that model. This is not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact.

I am not "... suggesting 'spiling' top and bottom as in full-size shipbuilding as the only authentic method." I am stating as an absolute fact that spiling each plank and cutting it out of flat planking stock is the only correct method of carvel planking. If the plank seams aren't going to be portrayed, and at most scales, they should not be, given the scale viewing distance, it makes no difference how the hull shape is constructed. This is why most top-quality model hulls aren't planked at all but are instead made from a solid block of wood or from laminated lifts ("bread and butter" method.) If planking seams are to be portrayed, they should be portrayed accurately. This isn't an "ideal." In this world of subjective reality, some things simply remain "right" and some remain "wrong" and aren't subject to opinion or interpretation. "Accuracy" is the hallmark of models. "Practicality" is the hallmark of tools." Delight" is the hallmark of toys. "Beauty" is the hallmark of art. Each has its place, and all are worthy of pursuit and enjoyment. It isn't that "... most smaller scale kits do not expect that (correct plank seam representations) to be done in practicality." Planking simply is not visible at scale viewing distances in "smaller scales." At smaller scales where plank seams are invisible, forming a hull shape is far easier done from a solid blank than planked. (In fact, the U.S.N. contract standards for ship models commissioned by the Navy require solid hull construction.) Kit manufacturers design kits to sell at a profit and plank on bulkhead kit model hull construction offers a marketability, and hence profitability, advantage to the manufacturers for which they sacrifice accuracy as well as ease of construction. (Much like IKEA's knocked down "flat packed" furniture, there are savings to be realized from "flat packed" ship model kits.) What "... most smaller scale kits do not expect" is that beginning ship modelers will know the difference.

 

[AllanKP69]

This is why most top-quality model hulls aren't planked at all but are instead made from a solid block of wood or from laminated lifts ("bread and butter" method.)

Hi Bob,
I find spiling easier at times as well but wonder about your comment above. Maybe it just comes down to a matter of taste and opinion, but looking at models at RMG, Musée National de la Marine and Preble Hall, the vast majority of hulls are POF, partially planked or fully planked and I consider them to be top quality. To the contrary, I find the solid hull models far less impressive. In the photos below the first three models are plank on frame and the last two are solid hulls.

Allan

 

[AndyA]

If you want to finish your hull "bright" with the wood grain showing (as no period sailing ship was finished ever... but now seems to be in style among some,) you should line off your planking runs completely and spile each plank as in standard carvel planking construction practice.

Good advice. I also don't quite understand the attraction of bright-finished models. However, it certainly is a way to exhibit a high level of craftsmanship, especially if the planking mirrors prototype practice. Fair winds!

 

[Bob Cleek]

Hi Bob,
I find spiling easier at times as well but wonder about your comment above. Maybe it just comes down to a matter of taste and opinion, but looking at models at RMG, Musée National de la Marine and Preble Hall, the vast majority of hulls are POF, partially planked or fully planked and I consider them to be top quality. To the contrary, I find the solid hull models far less impressive. In the photos below the first three models are plank on frame and the last two are solid hulls.

Allan

My bad! I should have written "most authentically realistic top-quality fully carvel planked model hulls..." Obviously, partially planked models purporting to depict the framing and other internal construction details (real or, as in the case of Admiralty Board-style models and most others, completely fanciful,) are necessarily not solid. Similarly, some fine fully planked models are finished bright to show the planking seams as a matter of decorative style and for that reason were constructed on a hollow framework, although in the case of any fully planked model, it remains far easier to shape a solid hull, or easier yet, a "waterline lift" ("bread and butter") hull, and then "plank" that with a veneer of properly laid out planking than to perform the very exacting work of building any sort of armature upon which to hang plank, or, as some kit manufacturers are won't to falsely advertise, "build a model just like a real shipwright!"