Evening all, finally managed to get the constellation from AL, I intend her to be painted in the black and white scheme, is there any recommendations to research material, as my biggest model to date I want to really do it justice
Not familiar with that kit. Is it the frigate CONSTELLATION or sloop CONSTELLATION?
So you are aware, there is a USS Constellation docked in Baltimore Maryland. It is the Sloop of War Constellation (1854) and not the Frigate Constellation (1797). For a while there was a belief that they were one in the same through an extensive rebuild. But later on through intensive research it was determined that the original was broken up in 1853 and the one currently in Maryland is the Sloop of War USS Constellation (1854) was built close by as her substitute.
So, you are building the frigate, make sure you don't end up trying to use documentation on the Sloop of war which is very similar.
If you (or anyone else) is interested, the museum is:
USS Constellation Museum
Pier 1, 301 East Pratt Street
Baltimore Maryland 21202
www.constellation.org
So, you are building the frigate, make sure you don't end up trying to use documentation on the Sloop of war which is very similar.
If you (or anyone else) is interested, the museum is:
USS Constellation Museum
Pier 1, 301 East Pratt Street
Baltimore Maryland 21202
www.constellation.org
Perhaps try the US Naval War College Museum, although the frigate had no association with the training station at Newport as far as I know. The sloop has been converted into a museum ship in Baltimore, Maryland. They might have some useful reference materials since I understand the sloop incorporated some parts from the frigate after she was broken up.
Corsair beat me to the punch.
Sorry.
Don't be. Your post had more useful information than mine.Sorry.
From that museum, I got the book "Fouled 
s: The Constellation Question Answered". Its about the research into if they were the same boat or separate builds. It's quite interesting if anyone cares.
Ok, I don't know how to get the icon out of there and use the typed word.
s: The Constellation Question Answered". Its about the research into if they were the same boat or separate builds. It's quite interesting if anyone cares. Ok, I don't know how to get the icon out of there and use the typed word.
Thankyou for all this it'll be great help, I didn't realise there were two ships I just thought it was one refurbished rebuilt.
I planned to paint it the same as the one docked
I planned to paint it the same as the one docked
It wouldn’t be unheard if the kit maker didn’t know the difference either. Entirely possible they designed the kit off the sloop in Baltimore.
When the name on the box is wrong, (US instead of USF (United States Frigate before 1907) or USS (United States ship from 1907) I would worry about more critical errors inside the box. Maybe consider some outside research including the paper at the Smithsonian by Chapelle and Polland.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-SI-PURL-gpo32322/pdf/GOVPUB-SI-PURL-gpo32322.pdf
In addition, there were drawings prepared by the US Navy Bureau of Ships dated 7 September 1944 based on their own research of contemporary records that you should be able to get as well.
Allan
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Regardless of it's inaccuracies, it makes a nice looking model.
No, it isn't. It looks like that garbage they sell in fake antique stores.Regardless of it's inaccuracies, it makes a nice looking model.
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Interesting, then why is the Constitution "USS" and not "USF"? Is that because it was recommissioned after 1907?
No. The U.S. Navy changed from using "USF" to "USS" for designating existing and future naval vessels, including frigates, in 1907 with President Theodore Roosevelt's Executive Order 549
In order that there shall be uniformity in the matter of designating naval vessels, it is hereby directed that the official designation of vessels of war, and other vessels of the Navy of the United States, shall be the name of such vessel, preceded by the words, United States Ship, or the letters U.S.S., and by no other words or letters.
Theodore Roosevelt.
The White House,
January 8, 1907.
Allan
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And I'm sure you believe that all your models are 100% built to scale...
Thankyou for that document will definitely help
No, it isn't. It looks like that garbage they sell in fake antique
I think once some modification with the info given it'll turn out niceRegardless of it's inaccuracies, it makes a nice looking model.
stores.
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The USS Constellation expert was the Dean of American Maritime History Howard I Chapelle.
Sometime after World War II a group of civic minded citizens in Maryland obtained Constellation from the US Navy with the usual idea that she would become a tourist attraction. Somewhere I have a copper coin supposedly cast from one of her copper fastenings, sold as a fundraising scheme.
Realizing that she had been modified over her lifetime, they tried to restore her to her 1798 appearance. Raining on their parade was Howard I Chapelle, a Naval Architect specializing in historic ships. Chapelle argued that the ship was an entirely different vessel than the one built in the late 1700’s. Her dimensions and hull lines were different plus she had a round stern. The original Constellation had a square stern. Chapelle argued that the navy used repair funds allocated by Congress to build an entirely new vessel.
Chapelle’s arguments seemed airtight to anyone who could could compare Constellation original drawings with the vessel sitting in Baltimore. Never less, for the next 30 or so years, a furious debate raged; Chapelle vs The Baltimore promoters. Chapelle’s scholarly arguments and dry wit on one side and increasingly silly arguments of the promoters on the other. Their final argument was the idea that since (maybe) some timber from the original ship had been used in the new one, the new vessel was still the original Constellation. Finally in the late 1980’s the Baltimore promoters gave up and she was taken in hand by a new group who restored her to her correct 1853 appearance. She can be seen in Baltimore harbor today.
The sorry saga is explained in detail in two books: Chapelle’s The Constellation Question and Fouleds quoted above. Fouled s was originally published by experts at the Navy’s David Taylor Model Basin about 20 years after Chapelle’s death. It includes the startling evidence that President Roosevelt (FDR) or his people faked documents regarding the Baltimore ship’s Provenance many rears before the Navy gave her to the Baltimore promoters. Those interested in Constellation should also look up Jerry Todd’s build log here on SOS. This Is an excellent model of her just prior to the Civil War.
So, what does all of this have to do with your model kit? Unfortunately the kit builds the “frigate” mouldering in Baltimore Harbor prior to her rescue and correct restoration to an 1853 Sloop-of-War. In other words, it builds a make believe vessel with both 1853 and 1798 features. Life is too short to waste time building this kit. Google Sunk Costs!
Roger
Sometime after World War II a group of civic minded citizens in Maryland obtained Constellation from the US Navy with the usual idea that she would become a tourist attraction. Somewhere I have a copper coin supposedly cast from one of her copper fastenings, sold as a fundraising scheme.
Realizing that she had been modified over her lifetime, they tried to restore her to her 1798 appearance. Raining on their parade was Howard I Chapelle, a Naval Architect specializing in historic ships. Chapelle argued that the ship was an entirely different vessel than the one built in the late 1700’s. Her dimensions and hull lines were different plus she had a round stern. The original Constellation had a square stern. Chapelle argued that the navy used repair funds allocated by Congress to build an entirely new vessel.
Chapelle’s arguments seemed airtight to anyone who could could compare Constellation original drawings with the vessel sitting in Baltimore. Never less, for the next 30 or so years, a furious debate raged; Chapelle vs The Baltimore promoters. Chapelle’s scholarly arguments and dry wit on one side and increasingly silly arguments of the promoters on the other. Their final argument was the idea that since (maybe) some timber from the original ship had been used in the new one, the new vessel was still the original Constellation. Finally in the late 1980’s the Baltimore promoters gave up and she was taken in hand by a new group who restored her to her correct 1853 appearance. She can be seen in Baltimore harbor today.
The sorry saga is explained in detail in two books: Chapelle’s The Constellation Question and Fouled
s quoted above. Fouled s was originally published by experts at the Navy’s David Taylor Model Basin about 20 years after Chapelle’s death. It includes the startling evidence that President Roosevelt (FDR) or his people faked documents regarding the Baltimore ship’s Provenance many rears before the Navy gave her to the Baltimore promoters. Those interested in Constellation should also look up Jerry Todd’s build log here on SOS. This Is an excellent model of her just prior to the Civil War. So, what does all of this have to do with your model kit? Unfortunately the kit builds the “frigate” mouldering in Baltimore Harbor prior to her rescue and correct restoration to an 1853 Sloop-of-War. In other words, it builds a make believe vessel with both 1853 and 1798 features. Life is too short to waste time building this kit. Google Sunk Costs!
Roger