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Victory figure head

  • Thread starter Thread starter janos
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janos

janos

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Hi,
I carved the original Victory figure head a while ago and I would like to carve the actual fh (the white shield with the 2 white angels) but I can't locate a properly detailed drawing of it (at least a front view and 1/ 2 side elevation). Would someone have an idea where to source it from?
Thanks in advance!
 János
 
Thanks!
I've got a number of pictures too, I would rather need true drawings (or pictures) from the front and sides.
János
 
As you probably know, the figurehead has been removed from the ship and resides in the National Museum of the Royal Navy just across from the Victory. Because it's so large, good "orthographic" side view photos are very difficult to take, which probably explains why I have no photos (taken by myself) in my library.

I know it's been 3D scanned and, while it's a long shot, it might be worth asking these people if it's possible to get any kind of copy https://www.gca-consulting.com/hms-victory-figurehead-display/. The answer will probably be no, but there's no harm in asking.

You could also try contacting this chap david.pulvertaft@ukgateway.net, who seems to be a specialist on figureheads. I have no idea if he's still around, but noticed his book on RN figureheads during my travels.

If you have no luck, message me and I'll see what I can do when I'm next visiting. That will probably be in the spring, when the weather is a little better. I should add that the dockyard does not make life easy for photographers, as they won't even allow you to take in a tripod these days.
 
Kevin the Lubber said:
As you probably know, the figurehead has been removed from the ship and resides in the National Museum of the Royal Navy just across from the Victory. Because it's so large, good "orthographic" side view photos are very difficult to take, which probably explains why I have no photos (taken by myself) in my library.

I know it's been 3D scanned and, while it's a long shot, it might be worth asking these people if it's possible to get any kind of copy https://www.gca-consulting.com/hms-victory-figurehead-display/. The answer will probably be no, but there's no harm in asking.

You could also try contacting this chap david.pulvertaft@ukgateway.net, who seems to be a specialist on figureheads. I have no idea if he's still around, but noticed his book on RN figureheads during my travels.

If you have no luck, message me and I'll see what I can do when I'm next visiting. That will probably be in the spring, when the weather is a little better. I should add that the dockyard does not make life easy for photographers, as they won't even allow you to take in a tripod these days.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Kevin!
I used to be in contact with David a while back but he did not respond to my emails recently. And the newest annotation on his site is dated on 2014 - I assume he is not there any more.
The site you suggested did not respond either.
I was not aware that the figure head is not attached to the ship any more - under these circumstances it is understandable that no true views can be taken from it.
There are quite a number of different photos of the figurehead on the Net so I will use them and I will try to compose a close to the authentic picture of it.
Best regards
János
 
Still in the thinking phase...
The plan is to make this figure head of Victory (in the mean time I read about the mishap of the original) but I am not sure about the size of it because it would be great to have a scale drawing of it. I want to make it comparable to the original figure head which I carved a good while ago so they can be presented in each others companion. And another plan to carve Balchen's Victory's figure head too. Plans are plenty...
János
 
Hi Janos, sorry but I missed your last October post. As it’s spring now I’m starting to watch the weather for a nice, warmer day for revisiting Portsmouth - it can be mighty cold in the dockyard if there’s any wind. I’ll try to remember to look at the figurehead and see what’s possible photographically. I hadn’t realised it was chopped up with a chainsaw, that explains why it looked so ‘broken’ in the museum.
 
Thanks, Kevin, it would be great if you could take a few pictures. Looking forward to it!
János
 
Allan, yes, the scaffolding is still covering most of the ship as the outer planking has all been removed. The masts have been gone for ages. My understanding is that it'll be a good few years before we see a 'complete' ship again and for now, the interior is the draw. The stern is still untouched but, paradoxically, it is starting to look like it too is in need of some urgent TLC.
 
janos said:
the original Victory figure head
Click to expand...
I just realized none of the above look anything like the original figurehead. As most folks building Victory are building the 1803 rebuild version, not the original, the current figurehead applies, but I thought the original is actually more interesting and complex.
One of the photos of the model of the original figure head :
1774262998604.png
There are a number of photos of this large carved replica of the original figurehead that she carried when she was launched in 1765 at RMG https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-68489
 
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SeasModels said:
View attachment 590085View attachment 590086
Click to expand...

I wish I had these pictures before I started carving the figurehead... But it is obviously too late now.
I consulted my 'friend', Copilot AI, about this matter, and it came up with quite a different solution. Taking every rule (what was recommended or allowed at that time and what was not), Hell knows which is authentic and which is not. AI's solution about the 1765 Victory (Nelson's) looks like this:
Victory FH4.jpg

I know it is completely different from the half size sculpture at Greenwich, but again, who knows...

Answering another question of mine about the Balchen's Victory figurehead, AI said that there is no picture or plan of it that exists at all, so it is open to interpretation. I have Broughton's book, Ship Figureheads... and it showed quite a different fh. AI's solution to the question is. So the question is: can this be accepted as a likely figurehead on Balchen's Victory?
Janos
BalchenVictory FH1 IV.jpg
 
janos said:
I wish I had these pictures before I started carving the figurehead... But it is obviously too late now.
I consulted my 'friend', Copilot AI, about this matter, and it came up with quite a different solution. Taking every rule (what was recommended or allowed at that time and what was not), Hell knows which is authentic and which is not. AI's solution about the 1765 Victory (Nelson's) looks like this:
View attachment 637910

I know it is completely different from the half size sculpture at Greenwich, but again, who knows...

Answering another question of mine about the Balchen's Victory figurehead, AI said that there is no picture or plan of it that exists at all, so it is open to interpretation. I have Broughton's book, Ship Figureheads... and it showed quite a different fh. AI's solution to the question is. So the question is: can this be accepted as a likely figurehead on Balchen's Victory?
Janos
View attachment 637912
Click to expand...
Of course; I can make it very detailed for you.
 
Using computers to make figureheads is way over my head, but for those that can, it is my understanding that multiple views are a help. While it replicates the original figurehead of 1765 RMG is not committing to the year this model was made. It states that it was made either about 1765-1770 or when it was replaced during the overhaul circa 1803.
Allan

1789897405937.png1789897425686.png1789897435336.png1789897443143.png1789897457976.png1789897468450.png1789897478475.png1789897489105.png
 
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Just to make sure we are on the same wavelength: I am talking about carving the figure head, not 3D printing it. I admire the complicated and realistic 3D pictures, but I am not capable of doing them. I worked in SolidWorks for 17 years and did some really sophisticated things with it, but the organic forms (not SolidWorks' forte anyway) are beyond my capabilities. So these AI-generated 3D 'pictures' are only there to create the main views, print them, attach them to the block, and everything from there is carving. Obviously, I lose some details (which I can't carve detailed enough), but at least I can say that the carved sculpture is closer to the original than the 3D print. At least this is my excuse...
I still have to finalise which way I am going to go, as I intend to create the Balchen Victory figurehead, and then also the current one (which had been bastardised by chainsaw on the ship), so I have a sort of series of Victory. At least this is the plan...
Janos
 
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