What is going on in the latest Paint Offerings?

[steven]

In October 2024 I purchased the Trumpeter 1/200 Titanic Model. I am just about to finish the build, so I bought my next build, the Trumpeter 1/350 CVN 41 aircraft carrier, Then the nightmare started.
I got the CV41 kit and immediatly started looking for paint to purchase. The paint guide in the kit only showed older paint from manufactures that had gone out of business. The internet sites have their own colors with no references to the old paint companys. If you do find something by guessing it's safe to assume, the paint name it going to be out of stock
Finally if you do find the guides color, and someone has it in stock, you need to go to the bank to get a loan to pay for shipping charges.
Am I the only one with this problem?
If anyone kas a good paint supplier please let me know.
Thsnks is advance,
Steven Bouher

 

[AllanKP69]

Hi Steven,

I haven't listened to all the podcasts that Michael has made available. Did he add one or did you post this problem in the wrong place?

Thanks

Allan

 

[Bob Cleek]

I got the CV41 kit and immediatly started looking for paint to purchase. The paint guide in the kit only showed older paint from manufactures that had gone out of business. The internet sites have their own colors with no references to the old paint companys. If you do find something by guessing it's safe to assume, the paint name it going to be out of stock
Finally if you do find the guides color, and someone has it in stock, you need to go to the bank to get a loan to pay for shipping charges.
Am I the only one with this problem?
If anyone kas a good paint supplier please let me know.

Yes, everybody who paints models has encountered this problem. Some have solved it, while others remain slaves to the modeling paint industry.

If a paint company has gone out of business, it's a safe bet that at least one of the paint companies still in business will have posted a "color conversion" chart online. These list the discontinued colors of a particular brand by color chip, product number, and descriptive name and the equivalent color and related information in the product list of the company that is still in business. These equivalent charts are sometimes found on the websites of the paint companies still in business or elsewhere on hobby sites, etc. See: https://www.bing.com/search?q=floqu...efig=695d828387044c4ea7ae5a62c0d40b85&pc=DCTS

Yes, various premixed modeling colors are often out of stock. This is because, relatively speaking, not a lot of modeling paint is made or bottled overall and what is made is made in small lots. Modeling paint" is a niche market and one involving considerable overhead for the manufacturers and retailers, who must maintain an extensive range of product for which there is limited demand, and which requires substantial display shelf space, inventory flooring financing, and taxation that is not as commensurate with the profit margin as many other products. Consequently, a one- or two-ounce bottle of "modeling paint" must be priced high if carrying the product is to make any business sense whatsoever. You pay a big premium for not knowing how to mix your own colors and condition your own paints, or for the convenience of having someone else do it for you.

Admittedly, when modeling very specific period models, the colors can become exacting. It's not unusual for modern era warship modelers to agonize over which shade of grey a particular ship was painted during a particular span of time in a particular theater during the Second World War or an exact color of the livery of one or another railroad. Such exactitude can sometimes pose challenges but overcoming them is only a matter of researching the correct color and mixing your colors to yield the one you desire.

Since the discontinuation of Floquil modeling paint in 2013, many experienced modelers now use tubed artists' oil or acrylic colors, mixing their own colors and conditioning their own paint. Tubed artists' colors are high quality, pigmented paint in what might be thought of as being in "concentrated" form. While seemingly higher in initial cost, a little goes a long way and, more significantly, properly capped tubes don't "dry up on the shelf" like the preconditioned colors in the little bottles (or, God forbid, in "rattle cans!") and, with a proper "palette" of as few as six or seven basic colors primary colors, the entire spectrum of color becomes available to mix on your own. I've never done an exact cost analysis, but when I see pictures of some modelers' walls covered with dozens, if not hundreds, of little 3/4-ounce bottles of Tamiya paints at about $8.00 USD plus tax each, the cost of mixing your own same, if not better, quality paint from tubed artists' oils or acrylic colors is negligible in comparison.

There are now many YouTube videos which teach the necessary techniques for painting models with tubed artists' oils and acrylics. The subject is also covered in any number of books. Everything you need to free yourself from ever having to again pay extortionate prices for modeling paint is waiting for you at your local art supply store.

 

[Loracs]

@Bob Cleek very cleverly summarized it. I switched to artist paint not a long time ago. Trying to mix to right color mix can be a challenge but with research you will find the right ratio of based color, either yourself OR using recipes that other often posted in forums. This is especially true for WWI/WWII era. It is in fact quite satisfying to get just the right tint for your project.

I want to be honest though; it is not always easy, but you will be free from constantly hunting the right manufacturer, the right application consistency and color tint. Give it a try, the entry price is low. Personally, I choose Liquitex higher grade paint... simply because it is widely available and with high pigment density. See my tank log below for links to WW color recipes.

 

[steven]

Hi Steven,

I haven't listened to all the podcasts that Michael has made available. Did he add one or did you post this problem in the wrong place?

Thanks

Allan

Yes I think I did, thanks

Yes, everybody who paints models has encountered this problem. Some have solved it, while others remain slaves to the modeling paint industry.

If a paint company has gone out of business, it's a safe bet that at least one of the paint companies still in business will have posted a "color conversion" chart online. These list the discontinued colors of a particular brand by color chip, product number, and descriptive name and the equivalent color and related information in the product list of the company that is still in business. These equivalent charts are sometimes found on the websites of the paint companies still in business or elsewhere on hobby sites, etc. See: https://www.bing.com/search?q=floqu...efig=695d828387044c4ea7ae5a62c0d40b85&pc=DCTS

Yes, various premixed modeling colors are often out of stock. This is because, relatively speaking, not a lot of modeling paint is made or bottled overall and what is made is made in small lots. Modeling paint" is a niche market and one involving considerable overhead for the manufacturers and retailers, who must maintain an extensive range of product for which there is limited demand, and which requires substantial display shelf space, inventory flooring financing, and taxation that is not as commensurate with the profit margin as many other products. Consequently, a one- or two-ounce bottle of "modeling paint" must be priced high if carrying the product is to make any business sense whatsoever. You pay a big premium for not knowing how to mix your own colors and condition your own paints, or for the convenience of having someone else do it for you.

Admittedly, when modeling very specific period models, the colors can become exacting. It's not unusual for modern era warship modelers to agonize over which shade of grey a particular ship was painted during a particular span of time in a particular theater during the Second World War or an exact color of the livery of one or another railroad. Such exactitude can sometimes pose challenges but overcoming them is only a matter of researching the correct color and mixing your colors to yield the one you desire.

Since the discontinuation of Floquil modeling paint in 2013, many experienced modelers now use tubed artists' oil or acrylic colors, mixing their own colors and conditioning their own paint. Tubed artists' colors are high quality, pigmented paint in what might be thought of as being in "concentrated" form. While seemingly higher in initial cost, a little goes a long way and, more significantly, properly capped tubes don't "dry up on the shelf" like the preconditioned colors in the little bottles (or, God forbid, in "rattle cans!") and, with a proper "palette" of as few as six oro seven basic colors primary colors, the entire spectrum of color becomes available to mix on your own. I've never done an exact cost analysis, but when I see pictures of some modelers' walls covered with dozens, if not hundreds, of little 3/4-ounce bottles of Tamiya paints at about $8.00 USD plus tax each, the cost of mixing your own same, if not better, quality paint from tubed artists' oils or acrylic colors is negligible in comparison.

There are now many YouTube videos which teach the necessary techniques for painting models with tubed artists' oils and acrylics. The subject is also covered in any number of books. Everything you need to free yourself from ever having to again pay extortionate prices for modeling paint is waiting for you at your local art supply store.

Yes, everybody who paints models has encountered this problem. Some have solved it, while others remain slaves to the modeling paint industry.

If a paint company has gone out of business, it's a safe bet that at least one of the paint companies still in business will have posted a "color conversion" chart online. These list the discontinued colors of a particular brand by color chip, product number, and descriptive name and the equivalent color and related information in the product list of the company that is still in business. These equivalent charts are sometimes found on the websites of the paint companies still in business or elsewhere on hobby sites, etc. See: https://www.bing.com/search?q=floqu...efig=695d828387044c4ea7ae5a62c0d40b85&pc=DCTS

Yes, various premixed modeling colors are often out of stock. This is because, relatively speaking, not a lot of modeling paint is made or bottled overall and what is made is made in small lots. Modeling paint" is a niche market and one involving considerable overhead for the manufacturers and retailers, who must maintain an extensive range of product for which there is limited demand, and which requires substantial display shelf space, inventory flooring financing, and taxation that is not as commensurate with the profit margin as many other products. Consequently, a one- or two-ounce bottle of "modeling paint" must be priced high if carrying the product is to make any business sense whatsoever. You pay a big premium for not knowing how to mix your own colors and condition your own paints, or for the convenience of having someone else do it for you.

Admittedly, when modeling very specific period models, the colors can become exacting. It's not unusual for modern era warship modelers to agonize over which shade of grey a particular ship was painted during a particular span of time in a particular theater during the Second World War or an exact color of the livery of one or another railroad. Such exactitude can sometimes pose challenges but overcoming them is only a matter of researching the correct color and mixing your colors to yield the one you desire.

Since the discontinuation of Floquil modeling paint in 2013, many experienced modelers now use tubed artists' oil or acrylic colors, mixing their own colors and conditioning their own paint. Tubed artists' colors are high quality, pigmented paint in what might be thought of as being in "concentrated" form. While seemingly higher in initial cost, a little goes a long way and, more significantly, properly capped tubes don't "dry up on the shelf" like the preconditioned colors in the little bottles (or, God forbid, in "rattle cans!") and, with a proper "palette" of as few as six oro seven basic colors primary colors, the entire spectrum of color becomes available to mix on your own. I've never done an exact cost analysis, but when I see pictures of some modelers' walls covered with dozens, if not hundreds, of little 3/4-ounce bottles of Tamiya paints at about $8.00 USD plus tax each, the cost of mixing your own same, if not better, quality paint from tubed artists' oils or acrylic colors is negligible in comparison.

There are now many YouTube videos which teach the necessary techniques for painting models with tubed artists' oils and acrylics. The subject is also covered in any number of books. Everything you need to free yourself from ever having to again pay extortionate prices for modeling paint is waiting for you at your local art supply store.

Thanks for the info, never considerd using tubed artist paint. Is the pigment strong enough to air brush or is this hand brush only?

 

[Bob Cleek]

Thanks for the info, never considerd using tubed artist paint. Is the pigment strong enough to air brush or is this hand brush only?

It depends on the paint, of course. Artists' oils and acrylics come in a surprisingly wide range of qualities and price points. There are "student grade" through "professional grade" paints. You want the good stuff. We won't be slathering it on with a palette knife. A little goes a long way, so the added cost for the top grade isn't particularly painful. There are also differences between brands and selections within brands as to the amount or "density" of the pigment load. Get the highest pigment load and the finest pigment grind you can find so that when you condition your paint for either brushing or airbrushing, you'll have good opacity when you thin it. If you want a higher pigment density than what you are able to buy, the binder (oil) can be reduced by squeezing the paint paste onto an absorbent material such as a piece of kraft paper bag or a paper towel and letting it sit. The absorbent material will soak up the oil and leave the pigment.

 

[Loracs]

Artist quality paint is indeed at high density of pigment... so no worry there. However, you will need to adjust the fluidity of the paint for airbrushing. It will need to be dilute significantly so it simply can go thru the airbrush. This is one reason I tend to gravitate toward "Soft body" artist paint - it is not as thick. I use "airbrush media" for dilution. There is a number of videos for diluting paint for airbrushing. Adjusting paint consistency for airbrushing is something you have to learn for pretty much all paints, even if they are labeled "airbrush-ready". Another approach though is to use Inks (Liquitex has a range of color). Inks are airbrush ready and can be used as is.

Paint is a "world" by itself... and have its learning curve too. I realized early when working with plastic model that the difficulty is not in building/assemble the kit... it is all about having a realistic final look - steel, for example. It is all about texture, base paint color and weathering. If you like plastic model, and it seen you do, spending time developing skills with paint, airbrushing and a variety of techniques is really worthwhile. Please, no rush uses spare parts and practice, practice and practice until you feel you are ready for the model.

Lastly, 1/350 and 1/200 are fantastic in term of details. I would strongly encourage you to get proficient with airbrushing. When you deal with very small details, you want your coat(s) of paint to be as thin as possible. Otherwise, it will obscure the details. I never hand-paint plastic model.... ever. But this is me!

 

[Bob Cleek]

I use "airbrush media" for dilution. There is a number of videos for diluting paint for airbrushing. Adjusting paint consistency for airbrushing is something you have to learn for pretty much all paints, even if they are labeled "airbrush-ready".

I use Flood's Penetrol, and raw linseed oil with artists oils. For thinning, I use gum turpentine and acetone. For acrylics, I use Flood's Floetrol and alcohol for thinning. The alcohol is good for airbrushing because it evaporates quickly. If you thin acrylic paste colors with water for airbrushing, it tends to curtain because the water takes its sweet time drying.

 

[BarrySR]

Your complaint about the high cost of shipping is easily solved by buying paint from Amazon. Although if you’re not a Prime members there might be a minimum order of around $35 ... I’ve bought Vallejo and Taniya paints from them, although they offer many other paint brands .

 

[ConsNZ]

In October 2024 I purchased the Trumpeter 1/200 Titanic Model. I am just about to finish the build, so I bought my next build, the Trumpeter 1/350 CVN 41 aircraft carrier, Then the nightmare started.
I got the CV41 kit and immediatly started looking for paint to purchase. The paint guide in the kit only showed older paint from manufactures that had gone out of business. The internet sites have their own colors with no references to the old paint companys. If you do find something by guessing it's safe to assume, the paint name it going to be out of stock
Finally if you do find the guides color, and someone has it in stock, you need to go to the bank to get a loan to pay for shipping charges.
Am I the only one with this problem?
If anyone kas a good paint supplier please let me know.
Thsnks is advance,
Steven Bouher

Hi, first of all paint fades, manufactured paints are quality controlled to a "near as" colour match unless they are strickly Automotive and/or Aerospace. So you shouldn't get stressed about achieving an absolute exact colour match, it rarely happens in real life. During the 45 years of service the USS Midway would have had a number of various shades/off shades of designated Measures. You should be searching for Federal Standard Colour conversion tables that will guide you to the nearest colour match in Tamiya, Italeri, Floquil etc. These would be accessable from any reputable local Model outlet either as 'pick-up' at no cost or at local mail/courier prices. There are many such PDF's available online, As an example check out

Federal Standard Paint Conversion Chart

www.plasticmodels.co.nz

 

[icebiker3]

It depends on the paint, of course. Artists' oils and acrylics come in a surprisingly wide range of qualities and price points. There are "student grade" through "professional grade" paints. You want the good stuff. We won't be slathering it on with a palette knife. A little goes a long way, so the added cost for the top grade isn't particularly painful. There are also differences between brands and selections within brands as to the amount or "density" of the pigment load. Get the highest pigment load and the finest pigment grind you can find so that when you condition your paint for either brushing or airbrushing, you'll have good opacity when you thin it. If you want a higher pigment density than what you are able to buy, the binder (oil) can be reduced by squeezing the paint paste onto an absorbent material such as a piece of kraft paper bag or a paper towel and letting it sit. The absorbent material will soak up the oil and leave the pigment.

Amazing the things you learn at 75. I still do not have an air brush. I used to be a persnickety pain, but now I figure that it is just for me, and it will all end up in the dumpster. Too dark? Sorry. You are doing such excellent work, the pleasure for me is in the reading and viewing. And learning.

 

[Van]

@Bob Cleek very cleverly summarized it. I switched to artist paint not a long time ago. Trying to mix to right color mix can be a challenge but with research you will find the right ratio of based color, either yourself OR using recipes that other often posted in forums. This is especially true for WWI/WWII era. It is in fact quite satisfying to get just the right tint for your project.

I want to be honest though; it is not always easy, but you will be free from constantly hunting the right manufacturer, the right application consistency and color tint. Give it a try, the entry price is low. Personally, I choose Liquitex higher grade paint... simply because it is widely available and with high pigment density. See my tank log below for links to WW color recipes.

On the web you can find RGB or CMYK values for all the Liquitex tubed acrylic paints. This MIGHT be helpful when homing in on an exact color you want to mix.

 

[Roger Pellett]

Those considering it to be necessary to duplicate the exact color for Naval Vessels should begin by doing some research to determine when the navy in question began to use pre-mixed colors. Prior to that colors were mixed by ships forces, possibly in accordance with specifications issued by naval authorities. Even using these formulae colors could vary.

Roger

 

[Bob Cleek]

I still do not have an air brush.

I have an airbrush, and I still use a brush for many applications where I find the brush to be the preferred choice. If one knows how to condition and apply paints and varnishes with a brush, there should be no discernable difference in the finished product. Unfortunately, that is often a big "if." Not nearly enough attention is paid by the average modeler to the basics of finish coatings and finishing is usually the most obvious of all the factors which go into creating a high-quality model.

 

[Rob444]

Those considering it to be necessary to duplicate the exact color for Naval Vessels should begin by doing some research to determine when the navy in question began to use pre-mixed colors. Prior to that colors were mixed by ships forces, possibly in accordance with specifications issued by naval authorities. Even using these formulae colors could vary.

Roger

In addition to Roger's excellent answer, you have to realize these ships are exposed to strong sun, the caustic effects of salt air and salt water. These would tend to bleach or bleed colors. Ships were constantly being scraped and painted. Even during WWII colors could vary by manufacturers. This was also true with aircraft.

 

[Bob Cleek]

Those considering it to be necessary to duplicate the exact color for Naval Vessels should begin by doing some research to determine when the navy in question began to use pre-mixed colors. Prior to that colors were mixed by ships forces, possibly in accordance with specifications issued by naval authorities. Even using these formulae colors could vary.

Roger

To put a finer point on it, for the immediate pre-WWII period, at least, the real question is when the Navy stopped using premixed colors! There is a lot of confusion and false assumptions concerning US Navy's paint manufacturing and color mixing during the year prior to the Pearl Harbor attack. Not since 1898 when white and "spar" (often improperly called "buff,") had ceased to be the official paint scheme did USN ships mix their own paint, and even then they'd only mixed the "spar." Once the USN settled on #5 Standard Navy Gray ("#5 SNG") the paint was supplied pre-mixed from the two Paint Manufacturing Yards (PMY), Philadelphia and Mare Island. Despite mixing formulas in the regulations, this was still standard practice throughout most of 1941 for both yard and ship’s forces. PMYs produced 55-gallon, 30-gallon and 5-gallon pre-mixed paint containers, and eventually, 5-U and 5-TM for mixing onboard ship. Until September 1941, most ships did not mix their own paint unless specifically ordered to do so for an experiment, and this was commonly practiced well into 1942.

At the beginning of 1941 or so, all U.S. Navy ships were painted something called "#5 Standard Navy Gray." With the clouds of war on the horizon, thought started to be given to transitioning to various camouflage paint schemes including the famed, but short lived, "dazzle" cammo patterns. This gave rise to an order for a series of somewhat experimental changes in gray shades, as well as dark "sea blues" for decks and the abandonment of painting the tops of main gun turrets different identifying colors for ariel identification purposes (e.g.: "insignia red" for U.S.S. Arizona) when defensive tactics required consideration of airborne reconnaissance and attacks from above.

A general order issued for the fleet to return all their #5 Standard Navy Gray ("SNG") paint to Naval Stores and in exchange obtain the revised colors "at the earliest opportunity." However, when whoever had that "bright idea" was informed of the magnitude of work involved in that order, given that by prior standing order, every ship carried aboard paint sufficient for at least one coat of paint, which, for example, in the case of U.S.S. Tennessee was 1,170 gallons, the order that the entire fleet offload and return all #5 SNG paint to Naval Stores was rescinded and a new order issued that formulas for adding GI specified tinting colors to existing stores of #5 SNG were to be employed to yield the newly designated colors using tinted existing stores "at their earliest opportunity." That said, color-blindness was never made a disqualifying condition for rating as a bosun's mate.

As a trivial footnote to the discussion, this transitional period has caused a lot of controversy among scale modelers regarding the actual colors of vessels at that time of less than uniform standardization. It seems there is still argument over whether U.S.S. Arizona's turret tops were painted "insignia red" as per the prior order, or "sea blue" as per the order in effect at the time. Eyewitness reports conflict. Relevant ship's records are non-existent. One turret was destroyed outright, another was burned to a crisp, and the third was cut up and disposed of as scrap before anybody took any color pictures of it. As luck would have it, the black and white photographs of the time which only recorded gray scales, yield a nearly identical dark gray color for both "insignia red" and "sea blue," so there's no definitive historical record of what the color of the turret top(s) were.

Anybody who happens to find this sort of wonky trivia interesting may be interested in this report concerning the matter: US Navy Camouflage and Color Doctrine – January 1 to December 16, 1941, at https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0730/0927/files/USN_Camo_and_Color_Doctrine_1941_1.pdf

 

[ConsNZ]

Those considering it to be necessary to duplicate the exact color for Naval Vessels should begin by doing some research to determine when the navy in question began to use pre-mixed colors. Prior to that colors were mixed by ships forces, possibly in accordance with specifications issued by naval authorities. Even using these formulae colors could vary.

Roger

Exactly! ----- cheers.