Sourcing the materials to build HMS Euryalus in 1:64 (POB) and planning on fully masted/rigged, full hull planking, painted with copper plating. I have been searching the forums and have not found a post or chart with what you skilled and more experienced builders recommend for the species of wood for the hull planking, deck planking, masts and yards. I have picked Allan Y's brain and want to give him a break. He has been so helpful as of late (A BIG THANK YOU) but I do not want to "wear out my welcome." I spoke with Vahur at Hobby Mill and he is out of Holly for the deck as suggested by Allan. I plan on using pear for the fancy work on the decks etc. but am open and look forward to your suggestions and guidance. Cheers!
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Thanks Chief, but feel free to ask all the questions you want to ask. I am curious to know what others will suggest for wood species of their choice. I am very anxious to follow your build, especially when it comes to the masting and rigging. What sources will you use for the masts, yard, rigging, etc? Petersson's book might be helpful but know that there were differences between the subject of his book Melampus (36) 1782 and Eurylaus (36) 1803. Lees will have far more on sizes, order of dressing, etc, that is appropriate for 1803. An example is the bowsprit collars. There were two on Melampus but three on Euryalus as she had an outer bobstay that came into use on ships starting about 1800.
Allan
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What are your domestic species that you can source? How much milling can you do yourself? Are you stuck with commercial supplier thickness or can you plane or sand down thicker?
a partial answer:
I disagree about using Holly for decking -if it is the unreasonably expensive North American snow white variety. No wood actually used for decking was that white. If it is a yellow variety of Holly that is excellent for decking.
So is Birch from tongue depressors. The sticks in the box are too thick for a 1:64 deck. Probably too thick for hull planking. If you have the means to reduce the thickness it will play nice for you. If you like the color, sand and shellac. You want yellow or red or black, an alcohol based aniline wood dye, sand, dye, glue, sand, touch up with dye where sanded thru, shellac. Going to paint it - species of wood does not matter. It is much less prep if the wood has tight grain and no open pores. Oak, Walnut, Ash, need an additional sealer step as well as a primer..
For sails @ 1:64 SilkSpan. Lots posted here that a search should find.
a partial answer:
I disagree about using Holly for decking -if it is the unreasonably expensive North American snow white variety. No wood actually used for decking was that white. If it is a yellow variety of Holly that is excellent for decking.
So is Birch from tongue depressors. The sticks in the box are too thick for a 1:64 deck. Probably too thick for hull planking. If you have the means to reduce the thickness it will play nice for you. If you like the color, sand and shellac. You want yellow or red or black, an alcohol based aniline wood dye, sand, dye, glue, sand, touch up with dye where sanded thru, shellac. Going to paint it - species of wood does not matter. It is much less prep if the wood has tight grain and no open pores. Oak, Walnut, Ash, need an additional sealer step as well as a primer..
For sails @ 1:64 SilkSpan. Lots posted here that a search should find.
Dean has a valid point. Pure white is indeed off-putting for decks for a lot of builders. But, to each his own. The below shows the colors using holly, Swiss pear, and Castello box. Alaskan cedar is gaining popularity and is supposedly a great substitute for Castello.
Allan
36 gun model circa 1801 There is a contrast between deck and hull planking, but it is more subtle.
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suggesting wood is a tricky subject because it depends on your location. Where i am, in an hours drive i can find a dozen sawmills and a huge variety of Appalachian Hardwoods, some of the best in the world. I have some very fine Black Cherry which is not black the bark looks black in a woods of standing timber. The wood ranges from a light cream color (sapwood) to a dark rich brown color. Cherry is the best i have used for planking hulls and decks. So many Maples, Beech, Poplar, dogwood, hornbeam and the list goes on.
As far as Holly is concerned personally i find it makes an ugly looking deck because it is stark white then adding black caulking lines is worse. Plus the outrageous price. I like Tulip Poplar for decking the wide sapwood is a light yellowish cream color, the heartwood is a lime green to light olive color. When you expose the wood to UV light or sunlight the green turns light tan to a mellow yellow perfect for decks. I do have exotic woods here in the barn but i find they are more hype as you can find common local woods just as good. Plus the high cost of the wood and shipping makes them too expensive to bother with.
another thing is, are you selecting woods for their color and general appearance or for their working properties?
As far as Holly is concerned personally i find it makes an ugly looking deck because it is stark white then adding black caulking lines is worse. Plus the outrageous price. I like Tulip Poplar for decking the wide sapwood is a light yellowish cream color, the heartwood is a lime green to light olive color. When you expose the wood to UV light or sunlight the green turns light tan to a mellow yellow perfect for decks. I do have exotic woods here in the barn but i find they are more hype as you can find common local woods just as good. Plus the high cost of the wood and shipping makes them too expensive to bother with.
another thing is, are you selecting woods for their color and general appearance or for their working properties?
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Here's your Holly, as well as a lot of other choice woods. You'll have to mill it yourself or have someone else mill it for you. I use these people religiously! Top shelf folks! Click on their name below.
Gilmer Wood Company
Gilmer Wood Company
Thank you all for your responses. As for reference books I have a couple:
SHIP MODELLING FROM SCRATCH – LEAF
SHIP MODEL BUILDING – JOHNSON
SHIP MODELLING SIMPLIFIEED – MASTINI
THE ART OF RIGGING – BIDDLECOMBE
THE PERIOD SHIP HANDBOOK 2 – JULIER
PLANKING TECHNIQUES FOR MODEL SHIP BUILDERS – DRESSEL
PLANK ON FRAME MODELS VOL 1 & 2 – UNDERHILL
THE TECHNIQUES OF SHIP MODELLING – WINGROVE
RIGGING PERIOD SHIP MODELS – PETERSSON
RIGGING PERIOD FORE AND AFT CRAFT – PETERSSON
THE SHIP MODEL BUILDER’S ASSISTANT – DAVIS
THE YOUNG SEA OFFICER’S SHEET ANCHOR – LEVER
THE HEAVY FRIGATE – GARDINER
THE MASTING AND RIGGING OF ENGLISH SHIPS OF WAR 1625-1860 – LEES
ARMING AND FITTING OF ENGLISH SHIPS OF WAR 1600-1815 – LAVERY
THE CONSTRUCTION AND FITTING OF THE ENGLISH MAN OF WAR 1650-1850 – GOODWIN
As for domestic species, I currently live in Spain but on 31 March, 2026 I am retiring after 44 years 8 months with the U.S. Navy. We do not plan on returning to Washington State (wood is very easy to get there) so the Admiral aka "CINC House" wants Florida (its a beach addiction thing). I have pretty much a full carpentry shop in storage but I think my planer/jointer/table saw/band saw are all a bit big for dimensioning lumber down small enough for model ships. I am not afraid of giving it a go though so I will see. My tools will come in handy for the display boards and cases so I am not too worried there.
Some of the links to sites here in Europe are no longer active. I have done business with Vahur at Hobby Mill and had no issues with orders coming from him to Spain so I plan on ordering as much as I can from him. He does not have round stock so I will hold off until I get stateside.
As an option to paining, I was considering Black Hornbeam but am not sure if it is too hard for hull planking. Anyone have experience with it?
SHIP MODELLING FROM SCRATCH – LEAF
SHIP MODEL BUILDING – JOHNSON
SHIP MODELLING SIMPLIFIEED – MASTINI
THE ART OF RIGGING – BIDDLECOMBE
THE PERIOD SHIP HANDBOOK 2 – JULIER
PLANKING TECHNIQUES FOR MODEL SHIP BUILDERS – DRESSEL
PLANK ON FRAME MODELS VOL 1 & 2 – UNDERHILL
THE TECHNIQUES OF SHIP MODELLING – WINGROVE
RIGGING PERIOD SHIP MODELS – PETERSSON
RIGGING PERIOD FORE AND AFT CRAFT – PETERSSON
THE SHIP MODEL BUILDER’S ASSISTANT – DAVIS
THE YOUNG SEA OFFICER’S SHEET ANCHOR – LEVER
THE HEAVY FRIGATE – GARDINER
THE MASTING AND RIGGING OF ENGLISH SHIPS OF WAR 1625-1860 – LEES
ARMING AND FITTING OF ENGLISH SHIPS OF WAR 1600-1815 – LAVERY
THE CONSTRUCTION AND FITTING OF THE ENGLISH MAN OF WAR 1650-1850 – GOODWIN
As for domestic species, I currently live in Spain but on 31 March, 2026 I am retiring after 44 years 8 months with the U.S. Navy. We do not plan on returning to Washington State (wood is very easy to get there) so the Admiral aka "CINC House" wants Florida (its a beach addiction thing). I have pretty much a full carpentry shop in storage but I think my planer/jointer/table saw/band saw are all a bit big for dimensioning lumber down small enough for model ships. I am not afraid of giving it a go though so I will see. My tools will come in handy for the display boards and cases so I am not too worried there.
Some of the links to sites here in Europe are no longer active. I have done business with Vahur at Hobby Mill and had no issues with orders coming from him to Spain so I plan on ordering as much as I can from him. He does not have round stock so I will hold off until I get stateside.
As an option to paining, I was considering Black Hornbeam but am not sure if it is too hard for hull planking. Anyone have experience with it?
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Your books:
You have about and even split between scratch and kit-centric.
Are you going kit or going scratch?
If you are going scratch your tools are ideal for starting with 4x4 or 8x4 lumber or even harvesting your own.
This is as cost efficient as it gets. POF requires multiple bf volume unless you are going miniature scale.
Much depends on what are your objectives.
I would give Black Hornbeam a pass. There are a number of eastern US species that take up a black aniline dye well enough to surpass the tortured Hornbeam.
Florida is probably as good as it gets for harvesting really excellent species that are not available to the rest of us.
This is not magic, There is nothing so special about the species that get all of the attention and worship that other species can be worthy substitutes.
If you are going scratch I have suggestions for species that should not break your bank. They will not earn you bragging rights on-line but they will do more than just get the job done.
You are missing a set of model scale tools - that are not necessary but sure make things easier to do. What many of us consider the as close to ideal as it gets is from a shop in Orlando that is dark now but is gearing back up to production after the death of owner.
You have about and even split between scratch and kit-centric.
Are you going kit or going scratch?
If you are going scratch your tools are ideal for starting with 4x4 or 8x4 lumber or even harvesting your own.
This is as cost efficient as it gets. POF requires multiple bf volume unless you are going miniature scale.
Much depends on what are your objectives.
I would give Black Hornbeam a pass. There are a number of eastern US species that take up a black aniline dye well enough to surpass the tortured Hornbeam.
Florida is probably as good as it gets for harvesting really excellent species that are not available to the rest of us.
This is not magic, There is nothing so special about the species that get all of the attention and worship that other species can be worthy substitutes.
If you are going scratch I have suggestions for species that should not break your bank. They will not earn you bragging rights on-line but they will do more than just get the job done.
You are missing a set of model scale tools - that are not necessary but sure make things easier to do. What many of us consider the as close to ideal as it gets is from a shop in Orlando that is dark now but is gearing back up to production after the death of owner.
Scratch, unfortunately there isn't a kit of an Apollo class Frigate available that I know of.
Thanks for the tip on Black Hornbeam - Suggestions for hull and deck planking?
I have plenty of modelling tools I have been using for plastic models the past 30 years and have completed the Model Shipways Dapper Tom to the point I am ready to mount the masts/bowsprit and start rigging as soon as I get settled stateside after retirement. Cheers!
Yes i see
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I have never used them, but woods of the citrus family are supposed to be good model making woods.
Back in the 1970’S there was interest among Nautical Research Members to harvest and use local woods and a number of articles about this were published in the Nautical Research Journal. One in particular, discussed woods found in Florida. Some may be republished on their Website: NRG.org. They have a digital index and Inexpensive reprints can be puchased by calling their office.
Roger
Back in the 1970’S there was interest among Nautical Research Members to harvest and use local woods and a number of articles about this were published in the Nautical Research Journal. One in particular, discussed woods found in Florida. Some may be republished on their Website: NRG.org. They have a digital index and Inexpensive reprints can be puchased by calling their office.
Roger
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Roger, you beat me to it on the citrus wood and the NRJ articles recommending them.
Checking my database: the first one is probably the main one.
FLORIDIAN WOODS FOR SHIP MODEL CONSTRUCTION
KITZEROW,JACK NAUTICAL RESEARCH JOURNAL 1990 35 49-51
PROCURING YOUR OWN WOOD
KITZEROW,JACK MODEL SHIP BUILDER 1982 19 8-16,79
A HOME LUMBERING OPERATION IN MINIATURE
KITZEROW,JACK NAUTICAL RESEARCH JOURNAL 1977 23 131-135
LUMBERING FOR THE SHIP MODEL BUILDER
KITZEROW,JACK NAUTICAL RESEARCH JOURNAL 1982 28 139-142
MAKE YOUR OWN LUMBER
RAHE,ROLLAND A SHIPS IN SCALE 1985 9 11
YOUR OWN LUMBER MILL PT.1
LARSON,GENE L SHIPS IN SCALE 1987 24 22-25
YOUR OWN LUMBER MILL PT.2 - WOODS FOR MODELBUILDING
LARSON,EUGENE L SHIPS IN SCALE 1987 25 54-58
I have never had any citrus to work either.
Another recommended harvest your own is Loguot - Japanese Plum.
Most any fruit wood - especially Apple is golden.
I cannot thick of a nut wood that is would work. Generally, all have grain that is grossly out of scale - have large open pores.
Kept hidden or painted after the pores are filled with the "dirt" in a sealer, they will do the job.
There was something written about an invasive tree in Florida - The thought that that the author found useful - stuff that you would be paid to cut.
I did a search. What came up on-line was mostly Tree of Heaven. The description of its lumber properties leads me to believe that we don't want it.
Commercial hardwood lumberyard stock south east US :
Hard Maple (is our Boxwood) grain pattern can be tricky. Plane cut is clear - works well for decks and planking - my favorite for frame stock. Cut with a different orientation to the rings and it is the figured grain that costs. Curved frames can show any of it.
Black Cherry - not a color that I would use for a deck - planking yes - frames yes.
Yellow Poplar - Tulip tree - my new favorite - it is everything that Basswood wishes it were. It has a low density.
Birch
Beech - look at the grain carefully before acquiring.
Basswood is the American Tilia - widely available widely recommended - It is too soft - too fuzzy - too difficult to get a crisp edge for me
Right now you should be able to get European Tilia = Linden - It has twice the density of Basswood. The thought that Basswood was the same as Linden is probably why Basswood is a commercial wood. It is not.= the same. Linden is probably worth your hording a lot if available and the price is right and the Navy will ship it for free.
Your project?
Which Apollo? =
HMS Apollo was a 32-gun fifth-rate launched in 1763 as HMS Glory. She was renamed in 1774, and was broken up in 1786.
HMS Apollo (1794) was a 38-gun fifth-rate launched in 1794 and wrecked in 1799 off Holland.
HMS Apollo (1799) was a 36-gun fifth-rate launched in 1799 and wrecked in 1804 off Portugal.
HMS Apollo (1805) was a 38-gun fifth-rate launched in 1805. She was put in harbour service, followed by use as a troopship in 1846 and was broken up in 1856.
Steel vessels do not enter my thoughts as a possible subject unless something activates their consideration, there is also this:
HMS Apollo (F70) was a Leander-class frigate launched in 1970. She was sold to the Pakistan Navy in 1988 and renamed Zulfiquar.
Checking my database: the first one is probably the main one.
FLORIDIAN WOODS FOR SHIP MODEL CONSTRUCTION
KITZEROW,JACK NAUTICAL RESEARCH JOURNAL 1990 35 49-51
PROCURING YOUR OWN WOOD
KITZEROW,JACK MODEL SHIP BUILDER 1982 19 8-16,79
A HOME LUMBERING OPERATION IN MINIATURE
KITZEROW,JACK NAUTICAL RESEARCH JOURNAL 1977 23 131-135
LUMBERING FOR THE SHIP MODEL BUILDER
KITZEROW,JACK NAUTICAL RESEARCH JOURNAL 1982 28 139-142
MAKE YOUR OWN LUMBER
RAHE,ROLLAND A SHIPS IN SCALE 1985 9 11
YOUR OWN LUMBER MILL PT.1
LARSON,GENE L SHIPS IN SCALE 1987 24 22-25
YOUR OWN LUMBER MILL PT.2 - WOODS FOR MODELBUILDING
LARSON,EUGENE L SHIPS IN SCALE 1987 25 54-58
I have never had any citrus to work either.
Another recommended harvest your own is Loguot - Japanese Plum.
Most any fruit wood - especially Apple is golden.
I cannot thick of a nut wood that is would work. Generally, all have grain that is grossly out of scale - have large open pores.
Kept hidden or painted after the pores are filled with the "dirt" in a sealer, they will do the job.
There was something written about an invasive tree in Florida - The thought that that the author found useful - stuff that you would be paid to cut.
I did a search. What came up on-line was mostly Tree of Heaven. The description of its lumber properties leads me to believe that we don't want it.
Commercial hardwood lumberyard stock south east US :
Hard Maple (is our Boxwood) grain pattern can be tricky. Plane cut is clear - works well for decks and planking - my favorite for frame stock. Cut with a different orientation to the rings and it is the figured grain that costs. Curved frames can show any of it.
Black Cherry - not a color that I would use for a deck - planking yes - frames yes.
Yellow Poplar - Tulip tree - my new favorite - it is everything that Basswood wishes it were. It has a low density.
Birch
Beech - look at the grain carefully before acquiring.
Basswood is the American Tilia - widely available widely recommended - It is too soft - too fuzzy - too difficult to get a crisp edge for me
Right now you should be able to get European Tilia = Linden - It has twice the density of Basswood. The thought that Basswood was the same as Linden is probably why Basswood is a commercial wood. It is not.= the same. Linden is probably worth your hording a lot if available and the price is right and the Navy will ship it for free.
Your project?
Which Apollo? =
HMS Apollo was a 32-gun fifth-rate launched in 1763 as HMS Glory. She was renamed in 1774, and was broken up in 1786.
HMS Apollo (1794) was a 38-gun fifth-rate launched in 1794 and wrecked in 1799 off Holland.
HMS Apollo (1799) was a 36-gun fifth-rate launched in 1799 and wrecked in 1804 off Portugal.
HMS Apollo (1805) was a 38-gun fifth-rate launched in 1805. She was put in harbour service, followed by use as a troopship in 1846 and was broken up in 1856.
Steel vessels do not enter my thoughts as a possible subject unless something activates their consideration, there is also this:
HMS Apollo (F70) was a Leander-class frigate launched in 1970. She was sold to the Pakistan Navy in 1988 and renamed Zulfiquar.
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I truly appreciate the suggestions for type wood to use. I have defaulted to good ole basswood for several of my deck planking needs. Right color and the right grain. I coat the deck with matte polyurethane which adds a slight coloring that hits the target. I have also used poplar and pear to good satisfaction.
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Kit manufacturers have an annoying habit of misrepresenting the actual species of wood that they supply. For example kit supplied walnut and mahogany bear little resemblance to the real thing.
I wondered if the same is true for much of the “basswood” that they supply. There are woods that resemble basswood that are cheaper. I have a couple of planks real basswood bought from a local hardwood lumber yard when I lived in Ohio. I used it for decking on a model built many years ago and had no trouble with the “fuzz”. It still looks good.
Roger
I wondered if the same is true for much of the “basswood” that they supply. There are woods that resemble basswood that are cheaper. I have a couple of planks real basswood bought from a local hardwood lumber yard when I lived in Ohio. I used it for decking on a model built many years ago and had no trouble with the “fuzz”. It still looks good.
Roger