Which "HMS Victory" kit - Caldercraft or Panart?

Sapper

Sapper

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My research in these forums leads me to understand that a "top of range" HMS Victory kit is one from Caldercraft. The kit from Panart however is half the price and more within my price range (although still relatively expensive). What are the differences between these two kits that would justify the extra cost? Are there any additions or modifications to the Panart kit that I might consider to "upgrade" it to a better quality build without forking out double the price for the Caldercraft kit?

(Not my first kit, but I can see no other forum to post this question in. Happy that a moderator moves it if more appropriate)
 
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first of all a warm welcome here on board of our forum.

Price:
You will work on this model for 1, 2 or even more years. Maybe 1.000 hours
The Caldercraft version is more expensive, yes, but is with big distance the the best Victory model - with much better quality etc.
So you would maybe pay 0,50 Euro / working hour more -> and you would get more fun and less frustration for the hole 1.000 hours

Some advantages which brings the Caldercraft kit compared to the Panart:

Much better drawings and instructions - also detailed rigging instruction
for a first view you can download their instructions from Jotika page

JoTiKa Ltd. ~ Victory Manuals Download Page.

JoTiKa Ltd. manufacturer and distributor of classic scale model kits from Caldercraft, Mini Fleet, Nelsons Navy, Heritage series - including The Mary Rose - Krick, HFM Marine and many more.
www.jotika-ltd.com
slightly bigger scale (1:72 compared to 1:78)
much better quality in the wood material
much better quality in the fittings for all the details on such a ship model (guns, capstan, pumps, etc.
better quality in the blocks and rigging thread - so maybe you do not have to buy aftermarket material, which you maybe would have to buy to replace the Panart-material - does Panart still have no black rigging materail in the kit?

Comparing some parts with photos (left Panart - right Cladercraft

Screenshot 2024-01-17 091003.png Screenshot 2024-01-17 090730.png

Screenshot 2024-01-17 091023.png Screenshot 2024-01-17 091530.png

Screenshot 2024-01-17 091042.png Screenshot 2024-01-17 091550.png

Screenshot 2024-01-17 091255.png Screenshot 2024-01-17 092228.png

JoTiKa Ltd. ~ HMS Victory Construction Page 2.

JoTiKa Ltd. manufacturer and distributor of classic scale model kits from Caldercraft, Mini Fleet, Nelsons Navy, Heritage series - including The Mary Rose - Krick, HFM Marine and many more.
www.jotika-ltd.com

JoTiKa Ltd. ~ Customer Models Index.

JoTiKa Ltd. manufacturer and distributor of classic scale model kits from Caldercraft, Mini Fleet, Nelsons Navy, Heritage series - including The Mary Rose - Krick, HFM Marine and many more.
www.jotika-ltd.com

Also take a look at the photos of the completed model made by our member @Ken who build the Caldercraft kit without any modeifications, so out of the box

HMS Victory, Caldercraft

Here is my finished model of HMS VICTORY made from a Caldercraft kit. It was made straight from the box with no enhancements or any additional material, using only the plans and manual provided. There was a lot of work involved but it was fairly straight forward and I think that any moderately...
shipsofscale.com

Please do not misunderstand me
based on the Panart kit, you can produce a wonderful model - we have several very good examples here in our forum, it is only my own personal and subjective opinion and my words are describing only why I would buy the Caldercraft version

Here all Panart building logs


Here all Caldercraft building logs

 
Uwek said:
first of all a warm welcome here on board of our forum.

Price:
You will work on this model for 1, 2 or even more years. Maybe 1.000 hours
The Caldercraft version is more expensive, yes, but is with big distance the the best Victory model - with much better quality etc.
So you would maybe pay 0,50 Euro / working hour more -> and you would get more fun and less frustration for the hole 1.000 hours

Some advantages which brings the Caldercraft kit compared to the Panart:

Much better drawings and instructions - also detailed rigging instruction
for a first view you can download their instructions from Jotika page

JoTiKa Ltd. ~ Victory Manuals Download Page.

JoTiKa Ltd. manufacturer and distributor of classic scale model kits from Caldercraft, Mini Fleet, Nelsons Navy, Heritage series - including The Mary Rose - Krick, HFM Marine and many more.
www.jotika-ltd.com
slightly bigger scale (1:72 compared to 1:78)
much better quality in the wood material
much better quality in the fittings for all the details on such a ship model (guns, capstan, pumps, etc.
better quality in the blocks and rigging thread - so maybe you do not have to buy aftermarket material, which you maybe would have to buy to replace the Panart-material - does Panart still have no black rigging materail in the kit?

Comparing some parts with photos (left Panart - right Cladercraft

View attachment 421726 View attachment 421725

View attachment 421727 View attachment 421730

View attachment 421728 View attachment 421731

View attachment 421729 View attachment 421732

JoTiKa Ltd. ~ HMS Victory Construction Page 2.

JoTiKa Ltd. manufacturer and distributor of classic scale model kits from Caldercraft, Mini Fleet, Nelsons Navy, Heritage series - including The Mary Rose - Krick, HFM Marine and many more.
www.jotika-ltd.com

JoTiKa Ltd. ~ Customer Models Index.

JoTiKa Ltd. manufacturer and distributor of classic scale model kits from Caldercraft, Mini Fleet, Nelsons Navy, Heritage series - including The Mary Rose - Krick, HFM Marine and many more.
www.jotika-ltd.com

Also take a look at the photos of the completed model made by our member @Ken who build the Caldercraft kit without any modeifications, so out of the box

HMS Victory, Caldercraft

Here is my finished model of HMS VICTORY made from a Caldercraft kit. It was made straight from the box with no enhancements or any additional material, using only the plans and manual provided. There was a lot of work involved but it was fairly straight forward and I think that any moderately...
shipsofscale.com

Please do not misunderstand me
based on the Panart kit, you can produce a wonderful model - we have several very good examples here in our forum, it is only my own personal and subjective opinion and my words are describing only why I would buy the Caldercraft version

Here all Panart building logs


Here all Caldercraft building logs

Click to expand...
Thank you Ewe for showcasing my Victory. I totally agree, I can confirm that it was built straight out of the box without any additions, the kit, plans and instructions were excellent and left no confusion as to how it should be built, the photo etch set has to be seen to be believed I’ve yet to see better. It is a massive build but wasn’t overly difficult because of the plans/instructions, just a lot of it, I have seen the Panart version and to me the Caldercraft beats it hands down and is worth the extra cost. Ken
 
Sapper said:
My research in these forums leads me to understand that a "top of range" HMS Victory kit is one from Caldercraft. The kit from Panart however is half the price and more within my price range (although still relatively expensive). What are the differences between these two kits that would justify the extra cost? Are there any additions or modifications to the Panart kit that I might consider to "upgrade" it to a better quality build without forking out double the price for the Caldercraft kit?

(Not my first kit, but I can see no other forum to post this question in. Happy that a moderator moves it if more appropriate)
Click to expand...
Hi
I purchased a Caldercraft Victory partly assembled from eBay and I would recommend it 100%. The quality of the timber, fittings and drawings are better than any other kit I've built. A word of warning though it's a big complicated ship requiring a high level of experienced. I found this out the hard way the hull on my Victory looked wrong, when I checked further a number of bulkheads hadn't been pushed down all the way in the keel. My best fix is to start again which I'll do at a later date.
Tony
 
I remembered another difference, which can be very important

The coppering - When you compare with the Panart version, I guess you want to install the Victory hull with the copperplates, which are included in the kit. Otherwise you could also buy the Mantua Victory which is cheaper than the Panart, but has no copper sheets included in the kit.

Panart coppering
Vic copper pan1.jpeg vic copper pan.jpeg

Caldercraft coppering
Vic copper jotika.jpg Vic copper jotika1.jpg

This is one original copper sheet of the Victory

Screenshot 2024-01-18 104642.png

 
You won't regret it, the old maxim of 'you get what you pay for' was never more true in this case and wrestling with a poor kit can take some of the fun out of it. My experience of customer service from JoTika has always been good and I Iook forward to following your build. .
 
Sapper said:
My research in these forums leads me to understand that a "top of range" HMS Victory kit is one from Caldercraft. The kit from Panart however is half the price and more within my price range (although still relatively expensive). What are the differences between these two kits that would justify the extra cost? Are there any additions or modifications to the Panart kit that I might consider to "upgrade" it to a better quality build without forking out double the price for the Caldercraft kit?

(Not my first kit, but I can see no other forum to post this question in. Happy that a moderator moves it if more appropriate)
Click to expand...
I have the Caldercraft kit. Worth the money. Requires very good wood workimng skils/tools.
 
Sapper said:
My research in these forums leads me to understand that a "top of range" HMS Victory kit is one from Caldercraft. The kit from Panart however is half the price and more within my price range (although still relatively expensive). What are the differences between these two kits that would justify the extra cost? Are there any additions or modifications to the Panart kit that I might consider to "upgrade" it to a better quality build without forking out double the price for the Caldercraft kit?

(Not my first kit, but I can see no other forum to post this question in. Happy that a moderator moves it if more appropriate)
Click to expand...
Both are very good - Panard (With Life Boats and Copper Plates is an amazing model the one i did 40 years ago had incredible wood - solid.
Instructions not good and pland all right
Jotika is actually worth the extra 20 Full Size Plans and Good al though not perfect instructions and the etch is superb
Go for the Jotika if you can aford it - the pland and Etch are worth the extra
You will need decent books to get it right
100 Gun Ship Anatomy of Victory Excellent, HMS Victory by Mcgowan and Anatomy of Nelsons ships LOngridge (Which actualy details his build
 
Greetings!

I speak as a retailer of kits and I can tell you the Caldercraft kit is the least expensive model I sell. This is for two reasons. First, when I sell kits, I sell "yoga for the hands". The Caldercraft kit will take you, as others have said, easily two years to complete. What yoga studio, or gym, will cost that little, over the course of a couple of years, and, at the end, you will have an absolutely spectacular piece in your possession at the end? You may still not be able to bend down and touch your toes, but your special form of yoga will have resulted in an unparalleled piece in your home.

Second, I use the idea of "dollar per hour of fun". I don't know how much the kit will cost you, but if we compare the number of smaller models you would have to buy, during the time it takes to build the Caldercraft kit, you are way ahead.

So, there are two arguments I use regularly, and they do seem to make sense. I sell an awful lot of expensive models using just those two arguments.

Best to All,

Rick
 
The quality of the Caldercraft kit really makes me wonder how Occre can charge so much more for a smaller model. What makes that one so expensive? Can't just be the coin and nice base. It is a PoF model, but the "F" looks inaccurate to me (seems spaced too far apart)
 
Sapper said:
My research in these forums leads me to understand that a "top of range" HMS Victory kit is one from Caldercraft. The kit from Panart however is half the price and more within my price range (although still relatively expensive). What are the differences between these two kits that would justify the extra cost? Are there any additions or modifications to the Panart kit that I might consider to "upgrade" it to a better quality build without forking out double the price for the Caldercraft kit?

(Not my first kit, but I can see no other forum to post this question in. Happy that a moderator moves it if more appropriate)
Click to expand...
I built the Mantua kit and it took me over 1300 hours. It was my second model so a lot of that time was spent on a learning curve or modifying/correcting a lousy kit with even worse instructions. But I had 50 years of plastic experience so I was able to scratchbuild....it would have been dreadful.

20231212_140637.jpg

20231212_135938.jpg
 
I guess I'm the idiot in the room because I've started on the Billingboat version of Victory. It cost about $300 on sale, which is far less than the Caldercraft. There are only images in the instructions, not words of any language, but the parts list is very complete and useful (and multilingual). What have I gotten myself into?
 
I have the PANART kit at 1/78.What I can say about it: it’s a beautiful model for a decorative VICTORY.
Everything is quite approximate and it is suitable for someone who does not want a VICTORY that is faithful to the original.
For a builder who wants a VICTORY as close as the original, the CADELCRAFT kit is the benchmark.If this CADELCRAFT kit had existed when I bought the PANART one, I would have taken the CADELCRAFT one even if it is twice as expensive.
So I started from a base with the PANART hull and I started from scratch, putting aside all the PANART hardware.
I use Mac KEY plans.
Here is the current status:

IMG_3364.JPGIMG_3360.JPGIMG_2015.JPGIMG_3359.JPGIMG_3064.JPG
 
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