Commisioning model ship

[Moneeb]

Hello:

I am interested in commissioning a model of HMS Vanguard from the Battle of the Nile. Are there any people on here who would be willing to build a kit for me. If so, kindly message me with your costs, preferred kit, timeline, and some information about earlier builds. I really appreciate it!

 

[Y.T.]

Very intriguing. I guess people would want to know your requirements and how much you are ready to pay.

 

[Moneeb]

Thanks for the reply. I guess my requirement would be for the kit to be assembled at an "expert" level of workmanship. As far as pric8ng is concerned, I am open to negotiation but I need input from model builders on this forum for guidance. I have commissioned "from scratch" models before but - in this instance - am willing to provide a kit so that should make the build easier than a scratch build.

 

[Tony P]

Thanks for the reply. I guess my requirement would be for the kit to be assembled at an "expert" level of workmanship. As far as pric8ng is concerned, I am open to negotiation but I need input from model builders on this forum for guidance. I have commissioned "from scratch" models before but - in this instance - am willing to provide a kit so that should make the build easier than a scratch build.

I'm not in a position to build it for you but a full ship model kit or not will run into the thousands of dollars without a doubt. The quality and scale of model you actually want will determine the cost. Also there's a huge difference between POB and POF models. There's plenty of great builders here that know more than me hopefully they can help you.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

HMS Vanguard 74 1787 was one of the HMS Edgar 1779 class
which was a modified design of the Arrogant 1761 class
which was a modified design of the Bellona 1760 class

I have seen nothing specific about what exactly were the modifications and if they would be significant enough to make a difference.
that the differences are not described shifts the balance to being able to use any member of any of the three classes. RMG has names for all three classes with the plans that a search brings up. The best looking plan is ZAZ0890.

Even if there was a difference for kits the compromises inherent in kit design would produce much greater difference from authentic even if there were separate plans for each class

"expert" level of workmanship.

If authentic as practical as well as expert workmanship is your objective, this pretty much excludes starting from a kit. With those requirements you should consider a kit to be GIGO.

Continuing to commission a scratch build would probably produce what you wish. By being willing to start from a kit, you are obviously not interested in a POF model. A scratch lift model with swimming body dimensions being at a painted or thin paper plates (old copper patina) would be a much quicker build. The rest is pretty much the same, except that scratch is more likely going to be to spec than what any kit supplies.
A POB two layer planking would probably get you an external layer of over scale copper or a copper foil. Both would probably be kitschy or cartoon new penny bright and very likely sporting unsightly pox-like blisters.

A 74 is a major undertaking and potentially a time sink. I have no idea about how long it would take. But if it took 1000 hours the labor alone should be $25,000.
Any less and you are expecting it to be done by a slave.

 

[Moneeb]

Thank you for your detailed reply. You are correct - I am NOT looking for museum quality authenticity. I am also NOT wanting something cheap and toy like. I guess what I am inquiring about is can I commision someone withe appropriate expertise to build a kit for me?

 

[Roger Pellett]

“NOT something cheap and toy like.” This depends on what you plan to do with the model and who is looking at it.

The POB kits that would be a starting point for your model can cost close to $1000 and some cost much more. These kits all have features that will make them look toy like to a knowledgeable observer. For example, a vessel like Vanguard will require over 100 belaying pins; those wooden pins used to secure lines when not being used to knock someone over the head in pirate movies. In real life these turned wooden pins are about 1” diameter with a 1-14” shoulder. The kit supplied pins are almost always grossly overscale, resembling in size and shape a bowling pin. Since there’s a lot of them, to the knowledgeable viewer they stick out like the proverbial sore thumb.

Anyone agreeing to build a model like this from a kit, would be advised to require a detailed written contract as I believe that you would find features of the result to be “cheap and toy like.”

Roger

 

[Moneeb]

Thanks for the reply Roger. I think to simplify and describe my expectations more concisely - Im looking for someone with expert experience to build the kit for me. No need to substitute parts or "modify" the kit. Thanks

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

you are going to get a full range of opinions because there are builders here who build kits as a fun hobby with little to no regards to quality or craftsmanship and very serious builders with an eye on historical accuracy and a high level of craftsmanship. There is the building right out of the box and using what's in the box or replacing parts, fabricating scratch made parts.
No one builds as a labor of love and your looking at 100s of hours of work.

hiring artisans is not cheap hire an artist to create 3D figureheads or carvings and you looking at $60.00 an hour or $200.00 for a 3D figurehead model.

if you looking for a nicely built display model then out of the box will work

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

, a vessel like Vanguard will require over 100 belaying pins; those wooden pins used to secure lines when not being used to knock someone over the head in pirate movies. In real life these turned wooden pins are about 1” diameter with a 1-14” shoulder. The kit supplied pins are almost always grossly overscale, resembling in size and shape a bowling pin.

When I read that brass rod can be turned to become scale appropriate pins if the diameter is appropriate I have been hording brass welding rods whenever I buy something else from Amazon or TEMU. An electric drill and budget diamond needle files and carbide paper will probably be enough to do the shaping. A drill comes with your first move away from home and the other two are easy enough and cost is low enough to buy. Kit folk have no valid excuse not to do the substitution.
If I do not break out of my loop, whoever has to deal with what I leave behind is going to wonder what the heck?

 

[Jim Fortnam]

9

When I read that brass rod can be turned to become scale appropriate pins if the diameter is appropriate I have been hording brass welding rods whenever I buy something else from Amazon or TEMU. An electric drill and budget diamond needle files and carbide paper will probably be enough to do the shaping. A drill comes with your first move away from home and the other two are easy enough and cost is low enough to buy. Kit folk have no valid excuse not to do the substitution.
If I do not break out of my loop, whoever has to deal with what I leave behind is going to wonder what the heck?

take care, welding rods are not brass.

You may be better with purpose purchased free cutting bras in rod form.

J

 

[sevish]

Hi although I'm from Israel and shipping the finished model can be quite expensive, i'm
Almost finish my current commission build. And i can accept the job. For reference of my job quality you can check both my building logs.

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If you're interested send me a private message so we can talk.
Cheers
Guy

 

[Roger Pellett]

Many, probably most members of this forum are old geezers like me who count their remaining time on Earth by the number of ship models that they really want to build. In my case it’s finishing my current project. Building a model for someone else obviously interferes with this.

Why don’t you consider buying a model that someone has already built? There are a number of posts on the forum asking about selling models or otherwise passing them on to someone else. You would also be seeing what you’re buying before spending your money.

Roger

 

[Bob Cleek]

An electric drill and budget diamond needle files and carbide paper will probably be enough to do the shaping.

Let me know when you get to the 47th belaying pin out of a hundred! There's a reason that the competitions make an exception to the "scratch built" rules for store bought belaying pins. It certainly can be done with a drill and files, but what a job!

 

[Bob Cleek]

Bluejacket Shipcrafters offers a respectable model kit of Vanguard, as indicated by their advertising photos below. (Although I am not, myself, a fan of white running rigging, which in fact may just be an artifact of the photographic process. ) (See: https://www.bluejacketinc.com/shop/amati-kits/amati-model-ship-kits/hms-vanguard-amati/) This kit is actually the Amati Vanguard kit from Italy sole by Bluejacket in the U.S. Bluejacket Shipcrafters offers a commission service which will build their model kits to completion by professional modelers on their staff. Here's the information and the phone number to call and discuss your requirements with them. I'm sure they can provide you a quote on price and date of completion. One advantage of this service is that they will be experienced in the packing and shipping of the finished model in addition to building it. This is no small feat and requires qualified shippers to handle it without causing damage. See: https://www.bluejacketinc.com/custom-commissions-and-restorations/

I expect that, in the long run, this will also be the least expensive method of obtaining the model you desire, as well. I'm sure Bluejacket has highly skilled modelers and all the equipment anyone could wish for to get the job done at the highest level of workmanship. This will likely minimize the amount of time it will take to build the model and "time is money," as the saying goes. They are also in a good position to build a suitable display case for the model at the same time.

Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in Bluejacket Shipcrafters. I did build one of their kits years ago and found their product to be of high quality. I have no experience with Amati kits, however.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

but what a job!

I am wondering =
Can just the handles be shaped? there is wire that is final shaft dia. There are carbide twist drills that are the wire dia.
A drill press? Thin epoxy? A 10X Optivisor - but that strong a lens has a danger of drilling the tip of your nose?

 

[Bob Cleek]

I am wondering =
Can just the handles be shaped? there is wire that is final shaft dia. There are carbide twist drills that are the wire dia.
A drill press? Thin epoxy? A 10X Optivisor - but that strong a lens has a danger of drilling the tip of your nose?

I'd be inclined to try Gerald Wingrove's method described in his Techniques of Ship Modeling: Grind the edge of a hacksaw or razor knife blade to the desired belaying pin profile with parting profile included and mount that shop-made cutting tool in your lathe's tool post and turn the pin in one cut with the formed pin dropping off when the parting shape at the end cuts the formed pin free at the end of the pass. Welding rod or machinable brass rod works fine for such machining. You'll be sure all your belaying pins are uniformly formed using the same cutting tool, too.

 

[Roger Pellett]

It was easy to turn 1:32 scale belaying pins on my Sherline lathe from solid K &S Brass rod. I have collets to fit stock down to 1/16” diameter. The shank can be turned to surprisingly small diameters by taking light cuts and the handle shaped with needle files. A fine toothed Zona Saw cuts off the shaped pin.

My Great Lakes freighter project is 1:96 scale. I have some beautifully shaped correct to scale brass A J Fisher belaying pins from about 1940. I inherited them from my father. I will use them on this model. They have darkened with age.

Roger