What Makes a Ship Model Valuable to Others?

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

In the case of this thread, I see value in the drift that its gravity is working at.
Is there much more that can be said in this thread about every theoretical value an individual model could possess? The drift is keeping it alive and interesting.

well said i personally encourage drift in a thread it widens the view and brings more information into the topic. I do not see it as a crime against a forum.

holy smoke Bob you summoned the great and powerful AI and lo and behold what goes around comes around back to us defining the subject.

to try and push the fine art of ship modeling in a dark corner or trying to redefine it or even lower the standards and values to a level of "just a hobby" is indeed a fools errand the makers of kits use the high standards and the value it suggests as an advertising gimmick and plaster on the box "museum quality"

 

[Jimsky]

to try and push the fine art of ship modeling in a dark corner or trying to redefine it or even lower the standards and values to a level of "just a hobby" is indeed a fools errand the makers of kits use the high standards and the value it suggests as an advertising gimmick and plaster on the box "museum quality"

I think we need to separate two things that are being blurred together. For most of us, myself included, this is a hobby. My primary goal is simple: I build because I enjoy it. (period)! I enjoy the research, the problem-solving, the shaping of wood and metal, gluing together plastic halls, and the satisfaction of seeing something take form under my hands. That is quite enough satisfaction, isn't it?
If someone finds value in my models — historical accuracy, craftsmanship, or aesthetics, any value, I'm genuinely pleased. If they don’t, I’m not going to lose sleep over it, and I certainly won’t stop modeling. My motivation does not depend on external validations and judgment by others. My models are the crafts, not the Arts!

At the same time, acknowledging that this craft has standards is not the same as demanding that every modeler meet the highest academic or museum benchmark. High standards exist, and yes, manufacturers sometimes use phrases like “museum quality” as marketing language, a term I view with some skepticism, as reflected in our earlier thread discussion. The existence of rigorous work by figures such as Harold Underhill, C. Nepean Longridge, or James Lees (if you prefer another name here) does not obligate me, or anyone, to elevate our hobby to “fine art” status. Nor do I feel any desire to redefine what I do according to their standards.

Over the years, I have developed my own standards (yeah... I'm kinda old). They are informed by experience, by historical interest, and by what I personally find satisfying in a build. They are not imposed from above, and they are not diluted to make things easier. They simply reflect where I choose to place my effort and attention.

Calling ship modeling “just a hobby” can sound dismissive, as if enjoyment and seriousness cannot coexist. They absolutely can! A hobby can be approached casually or pursued with great depth. One does not cancel out the other. High standards exist, and yes, manufacturers sometimes use phrases like “museum quality” as marketing language. But marketing slogans do not define the craft. Modelers do. Each of us decides the level at which we wish to engage. The standards we accept inevitably shape the benchmark reflected in our models.

For me, it remains a hobby, one I take seriously enough to care about quality, but not so seriously that I need to classify it as fine art to justify my time at the bench. And that balance suits me perfectly.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

I think we need to separate two things that are being blurred together. For most of us, myself included, this is a hobby. My primary goal is simple: I build because I enjoy it. (period)! I enjoy the research, the problem-solving, the shaping of wood and metal, gluing together plastic halls, and the satisfaction of seeing something take form under my hands. That is quite enough satisfaction, isn't it?
If someone finds value in my models — historical accuracy, craftsmanship, or aesthetics, any value, I'm genuinely pleased. If they don’t, I’m not going to lose sleep over it, and I certainly won’t stop modeling. My motivation does not depend on external validations and judgment of others. My models are the crafts, not the Arts!

At the same time, acknowledging that this craft has standards is not the same as demanding that every modeler meet the highest academic or museum benchmark. High standards exist, and yes, manufacturers sometimes use phrases like “museum quality” as marketing language, a term I view with some skepticism, as reflected in our earlier
thread discussion. The existence of rigorous work by figures such as Harold Underhill, C. Nepean Longridge, or James Lees (if you prefer another name here) does not obligate me, or anyone, to elevate our hobby to “fine art” status. Nor do I feel any desire to redefine what I do according to their standards.

Over the years, I have developed my own standards (yeah... I'm kinda old). They are informed by experience, by historical interest, and by what I personally find satisfying in a build. They are not imposed from above, and they are not diluted to make things easier. They simply reflect where I choose to place my effort and attention.

Calling ship modeling “just a hobby” can sound dismissive, as if enjoyment and seriousness cannot coexist. They absolutely can! A hobby can be approached casually or pursued with great depth. One does not cancel out the other. High standards exist, and yes, manufacturers sometimes use phrases like “museum quality” as marketing language. But marketing slogans do not define the craft. Modelers do. Each of us decides the level at which we wish to engage. The standards we accept inevitably shape the benchmark reflected in our models.

For me, it remains a hobby, one I take seriously enough to care about so-called 'high grade", but not so seriously that I need to classify it as fine art to justify my time at the bench. And that balance suits me perfectly.

Well said and that is the very point that has been made here in this thread. to quote myself

"At one end of fine art models the standards are quite high and anyone joining the ship modeling community will see the high standards achieved by master builders. The builder can choose to aspire to those standards or not and just build for fun; the builder set his own personal standard good is good enough."

As far as kit makers go they use terms as Museum quality because they recognize the standards and value and in a sort of way encourage better and better modeling. We have beginner kits and intermediate kits high level kits and so-called kits of museum quality. If you personally reached you level so be it.

 

[Jimsky]

As far as kit makers go they use terms as Museum quality because they recognize the standards and value and in a sort of way encourage better and better modeling. We have beginner kits and intermediate kits high level kits and so-called kits of museum quality. If you personally reached you level so be it.

I think we are talking past each other slightly.
Yes, manufacturers use the phrase “museum quality.” But that does not mean the term reflects actual museum standards. It is, first and foremost, a marketing phrase. We’ve already discussed this at length in another thread, and I remain skeptical of the expression for precisely that reason. Museums themselves do not operate on a universal “quality ladder” the way kit box art might suggest. Their standards vary widely, and they are not defined purely, or even primarily, by craftsmanship alone. For some, provenance, documentation, historical relevance, and interpretive value all of these often matter more than surface finish or technical refinement. For others, receiving a model as a gift may be sufficient justification for displaying it. Museums, by contrast, operate with very different objectives when presenting their artifacts.

So when a kit manufacturer prints “museum quality” on a box, it is not a certification. It is aspirational language designed to signal seriousness and attract buyers who value higher standards. That is perfectly understandable from a marketing standpoint, but it should not be confused with institutional validation.

As for encouraging better modeling, improvement does not come from slogans. It comes from individual effort, study, and the standards each of us chooses to apply. If someone builds at a beginner level and is satisfied, that is valid. If someone pursues extreme historical accuracy and technical refinement, that is also valid. The presence of higher standards does not diminish enjoyment, and enjoyment does not require lowering standards.

For me, this remains a hobby, one I take seriously on my own terms and most importantly, in my spare time. I do not need a box label to define the value of my work, and I do not feel compelled to elevate it to institutional “museum” status to justify the time I spend at the bench, while enjoying every minute.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

is not the same as demanding that every modeler meet the highest academic or museum benchmark.

To demand: a hostile, emotionally loaded verb that does not describe what is in play here. The more appropriate verb is: to inform.

IF a builder aspires to play the game, they need to know what it involves. First of all they need to know that the game exists.

A serious purchaser of a completed model will probably require such standards in what they are willing to spend their money on. A builder who aspires to serve that market had better know the standards involved. A builder who would like to imagine that they COULD serve that market needs to know the actual standards.

To even play this game at the most challenging level, it is necessary to know the standards. It is necessary to be constantly reminded about the standards. Shortcuts are seductive. It is 'to make it more enjoyable' to have others who are playing the same game in a situation where help, mutual encouragement, and being informed of otherwise missed possibilities are available for communication. That the game exists is not easy to discover. The atmosphere we inhabit is geared to misdirect possible candidates to be financial prey, that the game is too difficult, and worse, that what they are selling makes one a player in the game with just what they provide.

I suspect that the most intense hostile fire comes from those who want to be seen as a master of the game without having to actually meet the standards. They prefer to lower the standards. The ironical in this is that the actual masters seem to be averse to any public communication and not at all open to sharing what they know. The guys riding the bench probably are better suited to be teachers and mentors anyway.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

I think we are talking past each other slightly.
Yes, manufacturers use the phrase “museum quality.” But that does not mean the term reflects actual museum standards. It is, first and foremost, a marketing phrase. We’ve already discussed this at length in another thread, and I remain skeptical of the expression for precisely that reason. Museums themselves do not operate on a universal “quality ladder” the way kit box art might suggest. Their standards vary widely, and they are not defined purely, or even primarily, by craftsmanship alone. For some, provenance, documentation, historical relevance, and interpretive value all of these often matter more than surface finish or technical refinement. For others, receiving a model as a gift may be sufficient justification for displaying it. Museums, by contrast, operate with very different objectives when presenting their artifacts.

So when a kit manufacturer prints “museum quality” on a box, it is not a certification. It is aspirational language designed to signal seriousness and attract buyers who value higher standards. That is perfectly understandable from a marketing standpoint, but it should not be confused with institutional validation.

As for encouraging better modeling, improvement does not come from slogans. It comes from individual effort, study, and the standards each of us chooses to apply. If someone builds at a beginner level and is satisfied, that is valid. If someone pursues extreme historical accuracy and technical refinement, that is also valid. The presence of higher standards does not diminish enjoyment, and enjoyment does not require lowering standards.

For me, this remains a hobby, one I take seriously on my own terms and most importantly, in my spare time. I do not need a box label to define the value of my work, and I do not feel compelled to elevate it to institutional “museum” status to justify the time I spend at the bench, while enjoying every minute.

and i agree with your post
as for me i have a project that rumbles around in my head and that is to create a fine art model. The material i want to use is pink ivory wood the heartwood is pink and the sap wood looks like ivory. The wood is the rarest on earth and very expensive. I do not consider myself a master builder and not quite confident enough to spend a lot of money to get enough pink ivory sapwood. There is no room for errors or remakes.
Another fine art project i would like to do is the engine room of the naval ship Mississippi 1840 with the gothic style engine. Perhaps at this stage just a pipe dream. I think what is holding me back right now is the need for isolation and a laser sharp focus. It takes more time to create the Sir Edward Hawke for the school project as it does if i just built the model here in my studio.

Believe me i know what the standard are and it is scarry difficult another heart pounding thing is to spend a few 100 hours on a project and using very expensive raw materials. Then be told what! were you cockeyed when you built that? sheesh you lost value points big time so do it again. i but i like it that way.

Jim i have not seen any build logs from you or in-depth research projects like the Tecumseth project so i cannot judge your work. BUT your dedication to the hobby and to this forum does command my fullest respect for what you do here. I think you sell yourself short it is more than a hobby for you.

 

[Jimsky]

To demand: a hostile, emotionally loaded verb that does not describe what is in play here. The more appropriate verb is: to inform.

IF a builder aspires to play the game, they need to know what it involves. First of all they need to know that the game exists.

A serious purchaser of a completed model will probably require such standards in what they are willing to spend their money on. A builder who aspires to serve that market had better know the standards involved. A builder who would like to imagine that they COULD serve that market needs to know the actual standards.

To even play this game at the most challenging level, it is necessary to know the standards. It is necessary to be constantly reminded about the standards. Shortcuts are seductive. It is 'to make it more enjoyable' to have others who are playing the same game in a situation where help, mutual encouragement, and being informed of otherwise missed possibilities are available for communication. That the game exists is not easy to discover. The atmosphere we inhabit is geared to misdirect possible candidates to be financial prey, that the game is too difficult, and worse, that what they are selling makes one a player in the game with just what they provide.

I suspect that the most intense hostile fire comes from those who want to be seen as a master of the game without having to actually meet the standards. They prefer to lower the standards. The ironical in this is that the actual masters seem to be averse to any public communication and not at all open to sharing what they know. The guys riding the bench probably are better suited to be teachers and mentors anyway.

You speak of “the game” and “serious purchasers” as if these are clearly defined, universally agreed concepts. I would genuinely ask: what exactly is a serious purchase, and who qualifies as a serious purchaser? Is seriousness defined by price? By prestige? By institutional validation?
For example, would you consider Justin Sun a “serious buyer” when he purchased Comedian by Maurizio Cattelan, Taped to the wall banana, for $6.2 million? The art market clearly did. Yet that transaction alone demonstrates that monetary value and “standards” do not always align in the way we imagine.

Ship modeling, as most of us practice it (myself in that range), is fundamentally a craft. It may rise to the level of fine art in some hands, but that is not the baseline definition of the activity. For many of us, myself included, it is a hobby pursued for enjoyment, personal satisfaction, and craftsmanship. If someone finds additional value in my work, I’m pleased. If not, I do not feel diminished. Also, I don't make my models in mind to sell them, I just give them away, to family, to friends, neighbors.
You suggest that anyone who questions the framing of “the game” is attempting to lower standards. That is a serious accusation. Having personal standards, even high ones, is not the same as subscribing to a single external hierarchy. Over the years, I have developed my own standards. They are rigorous, but they are mine, and I don't shy away from sharing with anyone who finds those useful in their modeling.

I have also commissioned many models. You would be surprised to know that some of my clients asked me to build from kits and never asked to be evaluated by some abstract “game” standard. They value craftsmanship, fidelity, and execution, not whether the builder has declared participation in a particular tiered system.

Knowledge of high standards is valuable. Obsession with gatekeeping is not. The craft benefits from shared knowledge, mutual encouragement, and honest discussion. It does not benefit from framing participation as a competitive arena where legitimacy must be earned by meeting undefined criteria set by unnamed arbiters.

If such a “game” exists, it should be clearly defined, not implied, guarded, or used as a rhetorical device to question others’ legitimacy.