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Le Saint Philippe 1693 after Jean-Claude Lemineur (Ancre) in scale 1:48
- Thread starter dockattner
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- 1:48 ancre saint philippe
Thanks for your understanding, Chris. Gerard has certainly been open to helping. Based on some things I have read Mr. L. has become less so as there have been so many questions about his monograph.
Here's a clumsy translation of something he wrote to another modeler: I'm an ignorant who cannot distinguish about naval modelism what's right from what's wrong...
Gotta admire his spunk!
Anyway, my questions are legion, so I need to sort some of this out on my own or I'll risk becoming an annoyance.
Do you think it attaches directly to the counter? Or is the handrail set off from the planking a few inches with a horizontal board covering any gap at the top?
Wow that's surprising - keep in mind Paul you are building a one of a kind stern model that does honor to HIS Monograph. One would think he would want to help you. Gerard on the other hand is always willing to share his knowledge. He's an amazing resource. I am sure you will figure it out - you have gotten this far right ?
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Do you mean only this golden rail or whole structure which is based on?
Is there a space between the gold rail and the counter? Or does it touch the counter? And if there is a space, is the space 'closed' by a horizontal board? As far as I can tell from the plans there is no space???
Or does the entire structure stand off from the counter? (I don't think so, but...)
Blue arrow is the lower counter. Pink arrow is the upper counter. At least I think so. Does the faux lower balcony touch the back of the ship or is there a space?
Thank you for your patience with me, Wojtas!
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I should also make a small disclamer. I don't know every name of parts as I haven't build POF before. I'll reference to parts as their letters and numbers on plans.
Firstly I would go back to this picture when you had no planking on frames. Next you added aplanking and a rail that extends on sides it is nr24 below "T" I don't see the part "T" as it should be thicker than nr24. On Planche nr15 it looks like "T" is made of couple separate element that should be visible on frame structure of stern, but I can't distinguish them. On other planches they look like one piece solid element.
It seems to me T part should be placed on 24, but we don't know how it looks and you already thinned it down by your planking.
Let's take a look how it looks on different planchet.
T is a base next is a layer of planking marked as "+" and solid structure made of segments that will be the faux lower balcony(if I'm correct
)
Here you get your answer about upper counter. I believe it's this element behind of pillar supporting balcony. They look similar to the position they're on Rochefort model.
Here is the part which confuses me. I don't know whether its first layer of planking on T structure or T structure itself-marked with red circle
You'll have to add all thicknesses and check it physically on model. You also have a clear boundaries of the golden rail and final thickness of each T segment.
I would suggest sticking to one view of stern with decors as it's the main feature and most breathtaking part of model
I'll leave you some completed models of Ambitieux- it has similar features, but simpler
I hope this will at least clear your thoughts. I'm not calling this is correct way to make this model, if you know I made mistakes please tell me.
I've drifted away from wood modeling for a while now and spend most of my time reading books and working on digital design. I'm still learning, so any pointing out of my flaws will be instructive.
Firstly I would go back to this picture when you had no planking on frames. Next you added aplanking and a rail that extends on sides it is nr24 below "T" I don't see the part "T" as it should be thicker than nr24. On Planche nr15 it looks like "T" is made of couple separate element that should be visible on frame structure of stern, but I can't distinguish them. On other planches they look like one piece solid element.
It seems to me T part should be placed on 24, but we don't know how it looks and you already thinned it down by your planking.
Let's take a look how it looks on different planchet.
T is a base next is a layer of planking marked as "+" and solid structure made of segments that will be the faux lower balcony(if I'm correct
)Here you get your answer about upper counter. I believe it's this element behind of pillar supporting balcony. They look similar to the position they're on Rochefort model.
Here is the part which confuses me. I don't know whether its first layer of planking on T structure or T structure itself-marked with red circle
You'll have to add all thicknesses and check it physically on model. You also have a clear boundaries of the golden rail and final thickness of each T segment.
I would suggest sticking to one view of stern with decors as it's the main feature and most breathtaking part of model
I'll leave you some completed models of Ambitieux- it has similar features, but simpler
I hope this will at least clear your thoughts. I'm not calling this is correct way to make this model, if you know I made mistakes please tell me.
I've drifted away from wood modeling for a while now and spend most of my time reading books and working on digital design. I'm still learning, so any pointing out of my flaws will be instructive.
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That’s it, Wojtas! The missing t is why I couldn’t make sense of it! It’s time for some imagineering or deconstruction!
I truly appreciate that you took the time to find my mistake and offer a way forward. You’re awesome! I love this forum (well not everyone
)!
I truly appreciate that you took the time to find my mistake and offer a way forward. You’re awesome! I love this forum (well not everyone
)!
Sitting here waiting for church to start and I just realized I failed to post this update...
...from 12 hours ago...
Well, I got myself into quite a funk this past week! It is my policy to not build anything until I understand everything. While I often fail in this regard (most recently evidenced by the error uncovered by our colleague Wojtas), the exercise of figuring out every detail on the complicated stern of the Saint Philippe sent me into a tailspin.
Rather than setting this model aside I have decided to just carry on and stop being such a baby. I will certainly make more mistakes now, but so be it. This is only my third ship model and first scratch attempt, so I need to stop taking myself and this build so seriously. I think I forgot this is a hobby...
I've fabricated lights (windows) before so I thought I might be able to do that while I sorted out the quarter galleries and stern balconies. The lower level of lights are round/oval and it was my thought to build the windows as squares and then place a panel in front of them simulating their round/oval shape. The first attempt ended in the bin - a day long struggle with window frames and muntins (these divide panes of glass within a window) that left me in a lower place than I was at the start of the effort.
Renewed by a restful night I changed directions and decided to build the face panel first.
Here we go with a photo essay that should provide some sense of my workflow...
This is where we begin - these openings need to appear round/oval:
A template:
The resultant rough-cut panel (still needs to be curved into place):
Each circle/oval needs to be framed. I decided to do that with a molding. I traced each circle onto a bit of fake boxwood and roughly cut out the inside with a hand saw (ooh, look at me rack up points with the we used to do everything without power tools crowd):
These rough-cut moldings were then glued to the panel (no small challenge getting them centered):
Next, the excess was removed from the inside of the molding using a spindle sander (thus forfeiting all my accumulated points):
That looked good but not great - which led to spending a really unthinkable amount of time making these moldings look more delicate:
Next up - back to the workbench to create light divides (muntins) and get them into these openings...
Thanks for visiting.
Onward!
...from 12 hours ago...
Well, I got myself into quite a funk this past week! It is my policy to not build anything until I understand everything. While I often fail in this regard (most recently evidenced by the error uncovered by our colleague Wojtas), the exercise of figuring out every detail on the complicated stern of the Saint Philippe sent me into a tailspin.
Rather than setting this model aside I have decided to just carry on and stop being such a baby. I will certainly make more mistakes now, but so be it. This is only my third ship model and first scratch attempt, so I need to stop taking myself and this build so seriously. I think I forgot this is a hobby...
I've fabricated lights (windows) before so I thought I might be able to do that while I sorted out the quarter galleries and stern balconies. The lower level of lights are round/oval and it was my thought to build the windows as squares and then place a panel in front of them simulating their round/oval shape. The first attempt ended in the bin - a day long struggle with window frames and muntins (these divide panes of glass within a window) that left me in a lower place than I was at the start of the effort.
Renewed by a restful night I changed directions and decided to build the face panel first.
Here we go with a photo essay that should provide some sense of my workflow...
This is where we begin - these openings need to appear round/oval:
A template:
The resultant rough-cut panel (still needs to be curved into place):
Each circle/oval needs to be framed. I decided to do that with a molding. I traced each circle onto a bit of fake boxwood and roughly cut out the inside with a hand saw (ooh, look at me rack up points with the we used to do everything without power tools crowd):
These rough-cut moldings were then glued to the panel (no small challenge getting them centered):
Next, the excess was removed from the inside of the molding using a spindle sander (thus forfeiting all my accumulated points):
That looked good but not great - which led to spending a really unthinkable amount of time making these moldings look more delicate:
Next up - back to the workbench to create light divides (muntins) and get them into these openings...
Thanks for visiting.
Onward!
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As my mother would say, “in order for flowers to bloom, some rain must fall.”
Excellent recovery from your “funk” Paul. Bravo! Wonderful looking lights!
Excellent recovery from your “funk” Paul. Bravo! Wonderful looking lights!
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That was a fun post to read Good Job!
Bravo for your perseverance and the outcome of these 6 window frames, Paul. Then building from scratch can suddenly be satisfying again.
Regards, Peter
Nice work Paul - how big are those openings for the oval windows ? I may need to pick up with of the hand saw you own there - looks great for delicate fret work - I have some coming up on my build and there's no way even at a slow speed with fine blades my power scroll saw will work.
Paul, those window frames turned out beautiful !
"Delicatizing" the window frames is the kind of attention to detail that makes your work so special.
Those hours are well worth it!
Thanks for sharing your work, effort and methods!
Those hours are well worth it!
Thanks for sharing your work, effort and methods!
I like that word. "Delicatizing"