Color of paint for the canon carriages on HMS Victory

[jimscars]

Hey everyone. The carriages on my HMS Victory are plywood so they have to be painted. I need feed back on what color to use on them. I've seen them in several different colors. Is red ok? Any opinions?

 

[Y.T.]

I had seen them only of ochre color. Same color as stripes on the hull outside. Red is not good IMHO.

 

[jimscars]

point taken. thank you.

 

[Bob Ellis]

Hey everyone. The carriages on my HMS Victory are plywood so they have to be painted. I need feed back on what color to use on them. I've seen them in several different colors. Is red ok? Any opinions?

They were the same ochre as the hull before Andrew Baines vandalised her. If they matched the hul the correct colour is a pale yellow, mix 50% yellow 50% white. According to the carpenters manifest.

 

[jimscars]

So what you are advising is that I use that mix for the ship as well? I will test that today. To be honest I wish they were walnut. Then I could just use a clear finish on them. Thanks Bob.

 

[David Webber]

So what you are advising is that I use that mix for the ship as well? I will test that today. To be honest I wish they were walnut. Then I could just use a clear finish on them. Thanks Bob.

Check the internet. There are thousands of photos of the actual ship as well as all the fittings snd guns.

 

[AllanKP69]

I looked at contracts regarding paint. None of them state a color, but, cost was always a factor and red and yellow ochre were cheap by comparison, thus the most commonly seen. I am not a fan of painting carriages or other items inboard, but go to Swiss pear or bloodwood for some items that may have been painted red. From the contract for HMS Elephant (74) 1786:

To treble paint the Ship without Board with good Oil Colours, and in like Manner the Great Cabin, Steerage, and all the Cabins, Rails, Stantions, Ladders, Gratings, Gangways, Bulkheads, Capstands, Upper deck beams, and Knees, and all the Work both within and without board for finishing and compleating the Hull of said Ship, shall be done in a Workmanlike Manner, equal in all respects to those of His Majesty’s Ships of the like Quality in the King’s Yards.

Looking at contemporary models, they were either unpainted or red, but this does not mean other colors were not used as well.
Allan

 

[Bob Ellis]

Check the internet. There are thousands of photos of the actual ship as well as all the fittings snd guns.

Yes but she hasn't been painted in Trafalgar colours since then, she was modified in the 1800's and painted black and white, then restored to her Trafalgar state and painted ochre. She remained that way until Baines had his analysis where they picked up traces of vermillion, a leftover from pre Trafalgar when she was red and black. So the manifest has been ignored and she's now pavement pizza! Peter Goodwin had already researched all this years before Baines

 

[Bob Ellis]

So what you are advising is that I use that mix for the ship as well? I will test that today. To be honest I wish they were walnut. Then I could just use a clear finish on them. Thanks Bob.

Yes, Though I disagree with the walnut as a substitute, It's a kit wood for a reason! Boxwood lightly stained or just polished would be good. When building kits if you want to make the best of them be prepared to replace the parts, timber, canon, blocks and line etc

 

[AllanKP69]

I vote with Bob. One exception may be American black walnut which has a nice tight grain but like other walnut species the sawdust has juglone in it and is toxic, especially to dogs. Some people call it walnut but possibly the worst we commonly see is sapele found in lower quality kits. It is brittle and open grained and many have found it to be a really bad choice for ship models.
Allan

 

[uncchains]

Hey everyone. The carriages on my HMS Victory are plywood so they have to be painted. I need feed back on what color to use on them. I've seen them in several different colors. Is red ok? Any opinions?

Yellow Ochre

 

[iutar]

It depends on the period in question. If we are talking about the time before 1800, gun carriages were coated with red iron oxide paint. This paint is red in color; it is a special coating that effectively protects both wood and iron from the effects of seawater.
That is why all the structural elements of the hull, as well as the bitts and bollards, were also painted with red lead primer.

In addition, iron oxide red paint possesses high fire resistance; therefore, gun port covers and frames, as well as gun carriages and the muzzle sections of barrels, were painted with it.

From 1800 onwards, gun carriages were painted with mineral ochre over the layer of red lead paint. This ochre was yellow in color (the specific shade depended on the quality of the ore and the quarry from which it was extracted).

Mineral ochre is a highly abrasion-resistant paint that provides excellent protection for wood and iron against seawater.

In the painting: cannons dating from before 1800. The gun carriages are completely coated with red lead paint.


In the photographs: gun carriages dating from after 1800. Yellow mineral ochre has been applied over red iron-oxide primer.

 

[jimscars]

well it appears the overwhelming majority vote for yellow ochre. My taste in colors doesn't find that shade appealing it will probably end up that color. I gotta say say though it's better then salmon on a a ship this dignified.

 

[Bob Ellis]

I vote with Bob. One exception may be American black walnut which has a nice tight grain but like other walnut species the sawdust has juglone in it and is toxic, especially to dogs. Some people call it walnut but possibly the worst we commonly see is sapele found in lower quality kits. It is brittle and open grained and many have found it to be a really bad choice for ship models.
Allan

Morning....if we're talking about the dark bands Allan black hornbeam is available from Hobbymill, but this is black ink infused ito the wood, so it's jet black. Better is ebony which I find on ebay under guitar materials. 10" slabs for fretboards. Either it's heavy on saw blades!
But to go to all that trouble is heavy on the pocket, it would have to be a damn good quality kit! Probably Caldercraft.
Otherwise just stain the kit stock timber with India ink like Olha does it. To make a good job of the build anything and everything to avoid masking tape and paint (or paint without the masking tape! Did you ever go through those early days as a 5 y.o. with a 1:72 Spitfire covered in cement with little pots of gloss brown and green??)