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Making your own Ropes
- Thread starter Phillipsart
- Start date
- Watchers 29
Thx Rob, it is also a lot fun doing, especially when you f*ck up another 300m of yarn 
30 times.....
30 times.....I was a bit surprised that i needed this much weight to get to this result. I think i got the list complete with Serafill 120/2 (180) on a rope walk of 5m.
I am going to do the same with the yarn i am going to use (Gutermann E121-E151 & E382) as a final product.
I am going to do the same with the yarn i am going to use (Gutermann E121-E151 & E382) as a final product.
That rope walk is very well designed; I tried to do business with the person who invented it, but it didn't work out, people are very wary about shipping to the USA and don't want to do business. In any case, the quality of your ropes looks excellent! Congratulations. I'm still trying to set mine up; I have all the components, but now I just need the time to put them together! Best regards, and kudos on the results.
Thx, import and export to and from usa is not funny at the moment, shipping costs and import/export regulations makes it a big hassle, products becomes almost twice as expensive. For us in the Netherlands it costs somewhere around €150 to send a package of 10kg to the USA and there is the possibility of customs. The risk is just to high. So i understand Stephan completely.
Thx Stephan, this means a lot to me especially from you.
I totally understand where you're coming from and I don't get why shipping has to be so complicated, though that’s down to government policy and has nothing to do with ship modeling or rope making, haha. But believe me, I bought a machine that cost around $300 just for the unit itself, and I’d honestly rather pay that €150 shipping fee than go through the frustration I’m dealing with now. Even returning the machine to the seller turned into a disaster because UPS completely wrecked the package; the seller apparently can't or won't handle the claim with UPS, so now I’m left with neither the machine nor a refund. Don't you think it's sometimes better to pay a few dollars more for something you know works, rather than experimenting with obscure machines that end up gathering dust because they're too complex to use? To wrap things up, I’ve heard from more than one modeler who bought that type of rope maker machine and ended up throwing it in the trash, or just letting it collect dust for that very reason. Still, I’m glad you guys are getting good use out of those machines and achieving such excellent results. I actually spoke with Stefan, too, and I really appreciate him being brutally honest with me, haha.
Cheers hoihoi to my fellow modelers in Holland!
Howdy crew!
Allow me to "briefly" introduce myself and my experience in rope-making (I apologize in advance for my lengthy post). My name's Chris, from Italy, currently working on the master section of Santisima Trinidad, kit by Occre. I'm by no means a navigated modeler, but I've been active in this field for more than 10 years, on and off. For various reasons, I've yet to finish a model, although I've got a few WIPs. One thing I can say for myself is that, where I lack in constancy, I try hard to compensate by being as clean and precise as I can.
Anyhoo, the Santisima section will see the finish line, I'm sure. I'm currently at that magical step that is masts' building and rigging.... the most intriguing aspect of model making, that which defines the degree of success and realism of the build, in my personal view.
In anticipation of this step and wanting to come to it with a certain degree of knowledge, I began studying on the subject matter of rope making earlier this year. To cut things short, I came across some posts of esteemed members of this forum (namely, Phillipsart and Steef66) and ordered a ropewalk machine from Stephan.
After designing the initial, maybe temporary, setup (pictures provided), I've been experimenting with it, sometimes successfully, sometime not. My setup is a 2.10m useful span on a plank from hook to hooks. The tensioning system I've devised with a mechanism used for roller shutters, that's spring-loaded. This design choice was to make the whole ropewalk a portable device. The only noticeable drawback is the fact that I can't determine the weight of the tensioning load applied, and even if I could measure it with a dynamometer, it does not remain entirely constant throught the process, given the spring-load nature. I've got in mind a way to improve it soon, still keeping it portable and at the same time making it measurable and, most importantly, repeatable.
I'm using Gutermann E121 thread, but also Mara 120. I find the latter to be a better thread, but it's clearly more expensive than the E series and I'm limited to the minimum size rope I can make, as the 3x1 setup returns a rope diameter of 0.39, and for seizing-valid rope, I need to obtain a smaller diameter.
The issue I'm having with the E121 thread is that I find it to be very elastic and fragile, and when the rope is twisted, it tends to severely curl back and shrink. Especially when twisting low diameters. I've tried the following setup with E121: 3x1 with minimum tension applied by the spring-loaded mechanism, 5% reduction of original length during the first phase of the twisting, in order to make rope I can use for seizing, output of approximately 0.21. This is the lowest I can obtain, but the rope tends to severely shrivel once I cut it free from the ropewalk. I can save perhaps a meter, as both ends curl back irreparably.
But even with different other setups tried so far (3x2, 3x4, 3x6) with tension which gets increased as the number of threads (yarns?) increase, Gutermann E121 remains an unstable and elastic rope that tends to shrivel back to various degrees. I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. Other than the setup with the variable spring-loaded mechanism, which I can't really control, I don't see where else I could be improving the process.
I guess my questions are, has anyone come across this issue with E? Where does the solution lie?
Thanks for sharing your experiences and advices.
Allow me to "briefly" introduce myself and my experience in rope-making (I apologize in advance for my lengthy post). My name's Chris, from Italy, currently working on the master section of Santisima Trinidad, kit by Occre. I'm by no means a navigated modeler, but I've been active in this field for more than 10 years, on and off. For various reasons, I've yet to finish a model, although I've got a few WIPs. One thing I can say for myself is that, where I lack in constancy, I try hard to compensate by being as clean and precise as I can.
Anyhoo, the Santisima section will see the finish line, I'm sure. I'm currently at that magical step that is masts' building and rigging.... the most intriguing aspect of model making, that which defines the degree of success and realism of the build, in my personal view.
In anticipation of this step and wanting to come to it with a certain degree of knowledge, I began studying on the subject matter of rope making earlier this year. To cut things short, I came across some posts of esteemed members of this forum (namely, Phillipsart and Steef66) and ordered a ropewalk machine from Stephan.
After designing the initial, maybe temporary, setup (pictures provided), I've been experimenting with it, sometimes successfully, sometime not. My setup is a 2.10m useful span on a plank from hook to hooks. The tensioning system I've devised with a mechanism used for roller shutters, that's spring-loaded. This design choice was to make the whole ropewalk a portable device. The only noticeable drawback is the fact that I can't determine the weight of the tensioning load applied, and even if I could measure it with a dynamometer, it does not remain entirely constant throught the process, given the spring-load nature. I've got in mind a way to improve it soon, still keeping it portable and at the same time making it measurable and, most importantly, repeatable.
I'm using Gutermann E121 thread, but also Mara 120. I find the latter to be a better thread, but it's clearly more expensive than the E series and I'm limited to the minimum size rope I can make, as the 3x1 setup returns a rope diameter of 0.39, and for seizing-valid rope, I need to obtain a smaller diameter.
The issue I'm having with the E121 thread is that I find it to be very elastic and fragile, and when the rope is twisted, it tends to severely curl back and shrink. Especially when twisting low diameters. I've tried the following setup with E121: 3x1 with minimum tension applied by the spring-loaded mechanism, 5% reduction of original length during the first phase of the twisting, in order to make rope I can use for seizing, output of approximately 0.21. This is the lowest I can obtain, but the rope tends to severely shrivel once I cut it free from the ropewalk. I can save perhaps a meter, as both ends curl back irreparably.
But even with different other setups tried so far (3x2, 3x4, 3x6) with tension which gets increased as the number of threads (yarns?) increase, Gutermann E121 remains an unstable and elastic rope that tends to shrivel back to various degrees. I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. Other than the setup with the variable spring-loaded mechanism, which I can't really control, I don't see where else I could be improving the process.
I guess my questions are, has anyone come across this issue with E? Where does the solution lie?
Thanks for sharing your experiences and advices.
Hi Chris
Your ropes look very original, and you chose excellent colors, too; that section of the Santisima Trinidad turned out beautifully.
Thanks for sharing your experience. By the way welcome to this amazing forum.
Cheers
Last edited:
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Hi Chris,
Nice to see you here and to see your results. What you’ve managed to achieve looks great, in any case. I think your idea to make the rope walk portable is pretty clever. As for the problem you’re having, it really comes down to the tension on the strands while spinning. Working with the spring isn’t a bad system in itself, but as you pointed out, you’re missing a constant setting.
If I were you, I’d go with weights. You could use an extra bar that you attach when you’re setting up the rig, allowing you to move the weight up and down along it. When you store your machine, just remove that bar. That way, you can experiment with different weights to get better results. I’m not sure if I understand the problem correctly. If the rope curls up after you take it out, this might be due to using too little weight. But in itself, this is also a fairly normal phenomenon. I always hang the rope up and put a clamp on the ends to let the rope spin. And once it stops spinning, you can use it.
If you mean that the string frays when you cut it, that’s normal too. Polyester wants to return to its original shape. You can prevent this by briefly baking it in an oven. The procedure is described in my thread. I hope this helps. And welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the warm welcome gents. Stephan, I mean that I find E121 to be a very elastic and fragile thread, and when I twist it, especially with a low number of yarns (configuration 3x1, 3x2 or even 3x4) it tends to curl up when I remove it from the ropewalk. Now, I've tried lower tension (the one-hook side in itself weighs exactly 50g + a little tension from the spring) and it curls up. I've tried with more tension from the spring and it curls up. I've then also increased the tension on the spring, and the yarns snap as soon as I reach the 5% mark. When I go up with the number of yarns, the phenomenon diminishes. And it doesn't present itself at all with Mara. I'll try what you suggested, and let it spin with a clamp attached at the ends of the rope. I really do need to make really thin ropes for serving and seizing. What weight do you use with E121 3x1? Have you ever tried that?
I don't have a fraying problem at all. I've learnt to bake the ropes into shape properly, just as you suggested in your earlier post
I don't have a fraying problem at all. I've learnt to bake the ropes into shape properly, just as you suggested in your earlier post
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Grab a magnifying glass and take a close look at the E121 thread. If you see that it’s made up of several even thinner strands (twist it a little between your fingers), then it’s probably already twisted clockwise. I’ve discovered that Skala 360 (Guterman’s thinnest thread) is made up of two strands and that they’re twisted clockwise.
In that case, you can’t twist 3x1 in the clockwise direction (position I, RH). If it’s 2x1, 3x1, or 4x1, you have to twist it in position 2, counterclockwise LH. This is because when the strands start twisting in position I, the thread is first twisted apart and then twisted back together. I hope this clears things up a bit. You only see this phenomenon with a single yarn per strand. With two or more yarns, this problem disappears. You’ll see that the rope can then also be stronger. By the way, you’d have to be quite the expert to be able to tell with the naked eye that the twisted rope isn’t a hawser rope (RH) but is twisted as cable LH. So in this case, you’re bending the rules a little—which yields a better result. Let me know if this is a succes.
Oh, yeah, I'll try what you suggested Stephan, thanks. Although, if I had to guess, by what I can see the E121 series does not appear to be twisted at all. In fact, if you look at the thread you can actually see that the strands that make it are kinda loose and not twisted like in the Mara series (which I haven't had any issues with). Nonetheless, I'll give it one more try.
In any case, if anyone has tried twisting E121 in the 3x1 configuration successfully, I would appreciate some pointers.
Thanks all
In any case, if anyone has tried twisting E121 in the 3x1 configuration successfully, I would appreciate some pointers.
Thanks all
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Make your rope on a rope walk
I have three machines ready for immediate sale again. The price is €165.00, excluding shipping costs. Please send me a private message if you're interested.
shipsofscale.com
The rope walk looks really good and the rope is super!
You may want to change the blocks, they are upside down so the rope will not go over where the sheave would be but rather over the tail piece. You can also just drill the holes in the proper location as an alternative if this kind of thing matters to you.
What ship is the model?
Thanks Allan
You may want to change the blocks, they are upside down so the rope will not go over where the sheave would be but rather over the tail piece. You can also just drill the holes in the proper location as an alternative if this kind of thing matters to you.
What ship is the model?
Thanks Allan
Thanks Allan. Indeed, they are. I followed the Occre instructions (pictures really) and only figured out that the blocks were depicted upside down after I had positioned them. I will do something about them, for sure, and I really like your idea of drilling new holes. As you pointed out, these kinds of thing matter a lot to me.
The section is that of Santisima Trinidad!
Certainly not your fault. OcCre does not seem to care how a ship was actually built. Other examples,,,,,,, there is no rounding of the deck beams, giant belaying pins, and considering the era, huge rocks instead of kentledge and shingle for ballast and cannon that are from another century. Those wooden barrels lying on the rock pile would have been destroyed in the first rough weather they faced.
Allan
Appropriate cannon for the era of Santisima Trinidad
Providing correct pattern cannon is not expensive and easy to do. I have no idea why they provided something that is totally wrong for the ST.
Hi Chris,
I am waiting on my shipment with the E121, E151 and E283 as soon it is in i can provide you with my test results. But the main thing is and always will be is weight. I blew a lot of yarn before i had the setup that was satisfying for me. Also the tension is important, i start off on 10% to 12% depending of the length of the ropewalk. Also the tension on the separator is important.
I am currently working on a ropewalk database where i try to collect as many information regarding the settings of the ropewalk, the type of yarn, weight, tension etc.
Maybe somebody else could help you out, i believe @Phillipsart is also using E121 and uses the same ropewalk from @Steef66 as we do. Maybe he has some tips for you. I agree with @Steef66 that you should try with "normal" weight.
Hi Robert,
I too am building a rope database where I record all the info I can. It's in Excel and I can share that with you if you like. In terms of replicability, I'm going to switch to a system that uses a casting reel instead of a spring-loaded mechanism. That way, I think I'll be able to measure the resistance on each clutch positions using a dynamometer, and thus be able to replicate each time the setting.
Don't misunderstand me, I've already successfully created ropes with my system... if it were not for the difficult reproducibility of it, it would work like a charm.
