A new guys observations of the hobby

[Epp]

Hello all, I am relatively new to your group - started the thread new guy and lost plans and your group was supportive and welcoming. While I was searching to find plans purchased a starter kit per recommendations I read in other threads, solid advice and I am going to build this one and another one.

For decades I was in the car restoration hobby, I have done more than I can count. Here are some of my observations from the car hobby, draw whatever parallels you wish between it and this group.

There are people who think that if you don't have the proper markings on hardware that you cant see that your restoration approach was half ass.

There are people who snicker at those who bring cars to a gathering that aren't restored but simply back on the road.

There are people who think that such and such a car isn't worth restoring.

The concours guys don't like the rat rod guys and so on.

There are guys who own 50 cars and none of the run, this guy is always criticized for not selling them- who cares the man enjoys having them.

The "experts" disagree on as many thing as they agree on. (see the thread on "rat lines first time")

My work is good, but I know full well that it cant compete with a 50,000 dollar Camaro that the owner spent 500,000 on in restoration. Incidentally this guy is usually an internet expert and the guy who is most critical of others- he's also usually leaning on his car - something you would not do if you had laid the paint down yourself.

I enjoy being in my shop and doing the work, even if its not perfect.

I read here that it was highly advisable to read the two articles on ships that should be built and ships that should not be built. I diligently read those articles and found myself more confused than I was previously. If you build a ship without all the historical information you are evidently a fool and if you build a ship of one that has all the information and has been modeled a lot you are wasting your time - incidentally the Constitution was specifically mentioned and that cross section is what I had no plans to.

I have read threads that ask you what type of builder do you want to be- good advice there. I also saw threads saying lets get more people into model ship building and why do so few actually post. I am the last guy to ever say "why cant we all get along"- however I think there would be a benefit to not telling people that they are wasting there time, there work is worthless, or calling there work a fantasy ship or a cartoon because it is not built to the standard of the experts who cant agree anyway. By that logic I would not have built a single car. I retired from a very technical career where I often had to read a short paragraph multiple times to be sure I was able to corollate and understand the information. So I have no interest in spending my retirement poring over historical documents so that I can still be faulted for doing things "wrong" .

I find this group enjoyable and have learned a lot in a short time. I am pretty much a blank slate here and know I will need help. Just like my cars I realize my work will never be as good as many here. I also realize that I am going to likely get blasted for posting this.
Regards
Paul Epp

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

As someone who hangs around a friend who restores old muscle cars, we have encountered more car snobs than model ship snobs on the modeling forums. That is not to say we don’t have strong opinions or specific likes or dislikes, just that most of us are critical of others work from a positive standpoint so the builder gains new ideas and not the negative standpoint which disincentivizes the builder. Occasionally there is a builder who takes comments in a negative light instead of a constructive one, but such reactive behavior is rare, possibly because most wooden model ship builders are quite old themselves as a group. You get out of the forum what you put into it. So many people are here to help, and we all realize we are are climbing the same ladder of learning. This forum in particular stresses that the builder should build whatever they desire, and those who strive to gain as much historical accuracy as possible have the importance to the forum as the young student toy tugboat builder.

 

[Corsair]

Hi Paul,
There are a lot of similarities between the two hobbies.
I won't bother to note them, because I'm sure you already know.
In addition, someone will ask how to do something and they will get a bunch of responses using different methods. All of the methods listed will work, but the person that asked the question is now even more confused than before.
Something tells me that it is like this in just about every hobby there is as well as in the working world.

 

[RussF]

Hi Paul, welcome to the group from the Finger Lakes of New York.

You won't get blasted by me, and doubtful by anyone else. You share some good insights that I think we all can learn from.

I don't know how long you lurked here before joining, so I don't know how many posts or complete threads you have read, but as you read more, I honestly believe you will find that the vast, vast majority are totally supportive regardless of your skill level. Sure, there are the purists and perfectionists, but I have only seen it rise to the level of being rude and obnoxious a couple of times. There are those who I believe truly mean well in their criticisms/recommendations, but due to the limitations of trying to convey feeling and emotions through text, have a hard time expressing themselves and sometimes it comes out somewhat harsh.

That said, I truly believe that the more you frequent the forum and the more names/personalities you familiarize yourself with, the more you will realize what a really friendly, supportive group this is. I sometimes enjoy the occasional banter about, for example, the color and diameter of ratlines, but having learned the personalities of those involved, I understand the spirit in which such comments were made. In time, you will too.

Again, welcome! And, I've got a 91 Berlinetta that needs work, I may just pick your brain sometime.

 

[Epp]

Hi Paul, welcome to the group from the Finger Lakes of New York.

You won't get blasted by me, and doubtful by anyone else. You share some good insights that I think we all can learn from.

I don't know how long you lurked here before joining, so I don't know how many posts or complete threads you have read, but as you read more, I honestly believe you will find the the vast, vast majority are totally supportive regardless of your skill level. Sure, there are the purists and perfectionists, but I have only seen it rise to the level of being rude and obnoxious a couple of times. There are those who I believe truly mean well in their criticisms/recommendations, but due to the limitations of trying to convey feeling and emotions through text, have a hard time expressing themselves and sometimes it comes out somewhat harsh.

That said, I truly believe that the more you frequent the forum and the more names/personalities you familiarize yourself with, the more you will realize what a really friendly, supportive group this is. I sometimes enjoy the occasional banter about, for example, the color and diameter of ratlines, but having learned the personalities of those involved, I understand the spirit in which such comments were made. In time, you will too.

Again, welcome! And, I've got a 91 Berlinetta that needs work, I may just pick your brain sometime.

Happy to help anyway I can - I can provide direct contact info if you like..

 

[Epp]

Hi Paul,
There are a lot of similarities between the two hobbies.
I won't bother to note them, because I'm sure you already know.
In addition, someone will ask how to do something and they will get a bunch of responses using different methods. All of the methods listed will work, but the person that asked the question is now even more confused than before.
Something tells me that it is like this in just about every hobby there is as well as in the working world.

Hi Jeff, I agree.. I have been curious to your call sign here, is Corsair in reference the the gull wing fighter of WWII or the Later Corsair II or? You welcomed me in my first post, thank you for that.
epp

 

[Roger Pellett]

The point of Chapelle’s Models That Should Be Built is that model builders were (and still are) overlooking the 100’s of well documented subjects in favor of a few well known choices. If you reread the article you will see that for his recommended subjects he provides suggestions in most cases for the documentation can be found for building a historically accurate model. He also lists the things that make up a well built model. Unlike your car restorers he didn’t swear the small stuff like what kind of knot should be used to tie the Whoozit to the whatzit.

He’s also speaking to scratch builders who can build a model of anything that they like. If you’re going to limit yourself to kits than you have to build subjects with mass market appeal.

Roger

 

[Corsair]

Hi Jeff, I agree.. I have been curious to your call sign here, is Corsair in reference the the gull wing fighter of WWII or the Later Corsair II or? You welcomed me in my first post, thank you for that.
epp

Hi Paul, It has multiple meanings. It's actually part of my email address too and it dates back from when I flew RC plans and computer simulators. It refers to the WWII "bent wing bird" and also as another name for a pirate. However, the A-7 Corsair II is also a great plane.

 

[Epp]

Good morning Roger, Thank you for responding its clear from reading other threads that you are very knowledgeable . While scratch building in and of itself is not intimidating to me I don't think its the way to start into something completely unknown, at least for me - I don't even know the nomenclature. So at this point I don't view building a kit as limiting.
I scratch built a car because I wanted to see if I could do it - not a kit car - I drew plans and bought tubing. There are those who would argue that since I bought carburetors and didn't cast them, its a kit car- I guess the same logic could be applied here. However I only attempted this after decades of restorations. It might be worth what I have in it, however I don't view it as a waste of time because I enjoyed doing it. So I guess it is indeed a fantasy car. I agree with those who responded and said the group was very supportive, I tried to make that clear. I also completely agree with how limiting the written word is (I wrote a course on this at my former employer) I was simply trying to state that people can and do enjoy hobbies in different ways and I think that's just fine.
epp

 

[Rob444]

Welcome aboard from Connecticut! I started out here a few years back as someone brand new. I did have a lot of experience with plastic modeling which has aided me somewhat. I think starting out with some starter kits is the way to go. I made build logs of most of my attempts and must say I have had mostly solid friendly support from a many people here. Their insight and suggestions have proven to be very helpful. As Jeff has said there were multiple suggestions to do things in different ways, all helpful.

I look forward to seeing your work here.

Rob

 

[Epp]

Welcome aboard from Connecticut! I started out here a few years back as someone brand new. I did have a lot of experience with plastic modeling which has aided me somewhat. I think starting out with some starter kits is the way to go. I made build logs of most of my attempts and must say I have had mostly solid friendly support from a many people here. Their insight and suggestions have proven to be very helpful. As Jeff has said there were multiple suggestions to do things in different ways, all helpful.

I look forward to seeing your work here.

Rob

Thank you Rob!

 

[MikeRags]

Hello all, I am relatively new to your group - started the thread new guy and lost plans and your group was supportive and welcoming. While I was searching to find plans purchased a starter kit per recommendations I read in other threads, solid advice and I am going to build this one and another one.

For decades I was in the car restoration hobby, I have done more than I can count. Here are some of my observations from the car hobby, draw whatever parallels you wish between it and this group.

There are people who think that if you don't have the proper markings on hardware that you cant see that your restoration approach was half ass.

There are people who snicker at those who bring cars to a gathering that aren't restored but simply back on the road.

There are people who think that such and such a car isn't worth restoring.

The concours guys don't like the rat rod guys and so on.

There are guys who own 50 cars and none of the run, this guy is always criticized for not selling them- who cares the man enjoys having them.

The "experts" disagree on as many thing as they agree on. (see the thread on "rat lines first time")

My work is good, but I know full well that it cant compete with a 50,000 dollar Camaro that the owner spent 500,000 on in restoration. Incidentally this guy is usually an internet expert and the guy who is most critical of others- he's also usually leaning on his car - something you would not do if you had laid the paint down yourself.

I enjoy being in my shop and doing the work, even if its not perfect.

I read here that it was highly advisable to read the two articles on ships that should be built and ships that should not be built. I diligently read those articles and found myself more confused than I was previously. If you build a ship without all the historical information you are evidently a fool and if you build a ship of one that has all the information and has been modeled a lot you are wasting your time - incidentally the Constitution was specifically mentioned and that cross section is what I had no plans to.

I have read threads that ask you what type of builder do you want to be- good advice there. I also saw threads saying lets get more people into model ship building and why do so few actually post. I am the last guy to ever say "why cant we all get along"- however I think there would be a benefit to not telling people that they are wasting there time, there work is worthless, or calling there work a fantasy ship or a cartoon because it is not built to the standard of the experts who cant agree anyway. By that logic I would not have built a single car. I retired from a very technical career where I often had to read a short paragraph multiple times to be sure I was able to corollate and understand the information. So I have no interest in spending my retirement poring over historical documents so that I can still be faulted for doing things "wrong" .

I find this group enjoyable and have learned a lot in a short time. I am pretty much a blank slate here and know I will need help. Just like my cars I realize my work will never be as good as many here. I also realize that I am going to likely get blasted for posting this.
Regards
Paul Epp

No blasting from me. There are jackasses in every hobby but I honestly haven’t seen a trace of that garbage here. Just nice, helpful people. I built cars so I know some of those guys are the worst. I own a Porsche. Talk about being categorized. I built plastic models as a kid and got back into it several years ago in my 60s and won 2nd place with my first build at a show and sure, that made my day but I haven’t been to another model show since. It’s just not what it’s about to me. For me, everything I build and fabricate is about the build, the enjoyment I get from building stuff. I’ve done two wooden ships now and holy moly, you talk about a lot of work and a challenge! Wow! 100% accuracy is just not necessary and actually tough to achieve, especially in the smaller scales. Nobody that will ever see my builds would know the difference anyway. Bottom line is we just do what makes US happy. Hope you have fun with it.

 

[Epp]

Hi Mike, I agree the group is very helpful. As Corsair said when you post a question you will get lots of responses on how to approach the problem, you need to select the one that you think will work for you. Like you I gave up shows years ago, it began to feel a lot like the high school cafeteria. The Porsche guys can be pretty fanatical... Like you I enjoy being in the shop and doing the work and I want to be as accurate as possible, but not at the cost of losing interest or the enjoyment I get out of doing the work. Thank you for the reply.
epp

 

[aferox]

Welcome! Definitely no blasting from me! My personal opinion is that ultra realism as a goal is not for everyone (though I do admire those working along that path), and that much of the pleasure is in the doing. I was a statistician most of my working life, and I find that the geometric form of ships is highly pleasing. That can lead me to some unusual choices. As to models which should or should not be built, I think the best advice I received when I started was "Build the ship you want to build." The only times I have NOT enjoyed the doing were when I was building a model of a ship which didn't move me.

 

[SeaWatchBooks]

When it comes to modeling (of any type) I like to say, "You do you." Hobbies should be enjoyable (though I confess I do swear a lot at the workbench) - the moment it isn't it becomes work.

 

[Epp]

That made me laugh out loud Seawatch- yes there is a entirely different vocabulary in the shop!

 

[Epp]

When it comes to modeling (of any type) I like to say, "You do you." Hobbies should be enjoyable (though I confess I do swear a lot at the workbench) - the moment it isn't it becomes work.

Incidentally my wife and I considered developing a home improvement show where we stand on ladders and yell at each other for a half hour every episode and never get anything done! We live in a 125 year old house..
epp

 

[SeaWatchBooks]

Incidentally my wife and I considered developing a home improvement show where we stand on ladders and yell at each other for a half hour every episode and never get anything done! We live in a 125 year old house..
epp

That's awesome! And I can relate, my first house was built in 1777. We since upgraded to a much new house - it's only 97 years old!

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Incidentally my wife and I considered developing a home improvement show where we stand on ladders and yell at each other for a half hour every episode and never get anything done! We live in a 125 year old house..
epp

Something about this is just hilarious to me, and I’m pretty sure I’d watch it.

As for forum etiquette - I agree that everyone should do whatever is lighting a fire beneath them, at any particular moment. If this or that thread does not appeal to the casual observer, for whatever constellation of reasons, they are free to ignore it and move on.

The sort of person that is just out there, itching to punch down is pretty rare on this forum, but they are usually given the comeuppance they deserve.

It’s a great community at SOS, who look after each other and generally try to be helpful where they can.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

then the odd man out i like the competition i like pushing myself and seeing what others can do. my brother restored classic cars i was not into the builds i like painting. I once saw at a car show what was called ghost painting where you saw an image appear in a paint job only when the light hit it just right as you walked around the car the image would appear and disappear. i asked how it was done and got a "i will never tell" i painted the same car over and over just for the fun of it. In every hobby or art there is the master class and they inspire what can be done. most of the time they will not take on an apprentice unless you have a natural talent to refine, and sometimes they will teach others just because or to pay forward.

for me model ship building is about original design one of a kind starting with just an idea then the process of making what i imagined in my head materialize on the worktable. i still do air brush painting but also sculpture, model building. and now steam punk has my attention. 3D modeling steam engines, cyber punk taking electronic scrap and turning it into sculpture.

the hood of a car i used to practice on and repaint it over and over. ya i was at one time into the alien theme but moved on.