What Brands Make Higher End Limited Edition/"Museum Quality" Model Kits and How Different Are They from a Standard Kit?

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i understand the original question is what makes a kit, any kits far more expensive than another and not what IS the best kit.

the only way is to have several kits of the same subject in different price range and compare them side by side but doing that there is a bias based on the builders experience and knowledge of the subject.

Excuse me but where in this series of posts did I say that I’m better than anyone else because I’m a scratch builder? My observations about mass market POB kits was based on dozens of complaints from kit builders here on SOS and inherent problems obvious from finished builds.
Roger

having spent many, many years on your craft to reach a level of master craftsman than have someone insult you for your accomplishments. Let it go you know as well as i do being on the staff at the school teaching this craft and taking time to answer and help everyone from beginner to fellow master builders is what we do and proud of it.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

another thing is cost of doing business which is a big factor in the cost of a kit. Maybe the kit maker lives in an expensive neighborhood and likes to drive and expensive car so he is looking for maximum profit the market can bear.
A small operation usually does not buy raw materials ie. lumber at a large cheaper wholesale level 3,000bdft at one time the up front cost and a place to store it might be an issue. So the wood is purchased in smaller amounts at a higher price. Cost of the machinery purchased by the kit maker is figured into each kit. Renting a building figured in the retail cost of a kit. Labor costs experienced people cost so much more. Place the business in located here in the USA minimum wage is $18.00 an hour no experience needed, oh you want someone experienced in laser cutting or CAD drafting humm? that is going to cost you. Someplace else labor cost may be much less.
So what is in the box of ALL kits is pretty much the same, yes there are small differences in quality in this or that but overall not so much. A small mom and pop operation would have a lower overhead perhaps the kits are made in the basement or outbuilding behind the house. But at some point to expand to meet demand you have to hire people or buy industrial size machines. I hate to bring it up but the government is part of it with income tax, FICA tax, SS tax you as the employer have to pay benefits to the people that work for you health insurance paid vacations. Then if you're not the whole deal from manufacture to distributor you have to cut the middleman in for a piece of the profit.
All of this adds to the retail cost of a kit more than providing quality of what's in the box.

way back i worked in graphic arts and design my, job was creating packaging for food products. The company rep once said to me the cost of the packaging and getting the product on the grocery shelf is far more expensive than the actual food in the container. Maybe that applies to kits.
If you enjoy the hobby of building model kits that's great. As a kid my bedroom was full of plastic models i built from a box and looking back on it i really liked doing it.

 

[Short John Bronze]

A guess: the first model made by many members of this forum was probably a kit. Many members may subsequently have evolved into scratch builders but perhaps we ought to be grateful to kit manufacturers (even if their historical accuracy is dubious) for getting so many of us started on this hobby.

 

[Horace]

Scratch builders accomplish a genuinely impressive thing IMO. It's ok to be proud of it. The only vaguely snobbish thing I've read is complaint that modern kits have too many prefabricated parts. Hard to take someone seriously if they want to be snobbish about fabricating parts themselves, but don't want to scratch build.

 

[Roger Pellett]

In my case my first models were crude efforts using scrap lumber and tools from my father’s workshop. Kits were priced way beyond the loose change that passed for an allowance. Balsa tissue airplanes were affordable and were encouraged by my parents. Plastic models were frowned upon. My one and only ship model kit was Model Shipways original Harriett Lane, a Christmas present built during my college years.

Roger

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

A guess: the first model made by many members of this forum was probably a kit. Many members may subsequently have evolved into scratch builders but perhaps we ought to be grateful to kit manufacturers (even if their historical accuracy is dubious) for getting so many of us started on this hobby.

well said i started with plastic kits and balsa airplane kits and model railroad kits. I think what rubs me the wrong way is kit builders who complain about poorly designed kits or bad instructions subpar materials etc. it's a hobby kit for heaven's sake just do your best with what you have and if you do not like what you bought then start from scratch. how simple is that? i believe we can turn the table and call some kit builders snobbish expecting kit manufactures to cater to their expectations. One aspect of the scratch builders is the peer review from other master builders it can be pretty rough. Some folks think striving to be a master builder is so you can look down on others and say "see what i can do" well wrong again striving for master level is all personal and pushing yourself for yourself.

and this post has little to do with why some kits cost more than others which i addresses in post #22

 

[Horace]

Kit quality, from materials to instructions to laser cuts, is obviously a valid subject of discussion. And how simple is it to discard a kit and start from scratch? I'll go with "not even close to simple".

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

Kit quality, from materials to instructions to laser cuts, is obviously a valid subject of discussion. And how simple is it to discard a kit and start from scratch? I'll go with "not even close to simple".

actually it that simple and it has been discussed in depth in other threads, this is not the topic to get into it again.

 

[Rob444]

Hi all,

New to the forum and ship modeling (but not woodworking and modeling more broadly).

I was wondering if anyone had any insights or experience with some of the higher end model kits, the difference in quality, and who makes them. Specifically, I am thinking of Occre's Limited Editions (Victory/Soleil Royal) and Agora (Constitution/Cutty Sark).

For those of you who have completed these models, is there a significant difference in quality and difficulty for these kits in the roughly $2,000 price point? Are there any other brands that offer these so-called "Museum Quality" model kits?

Thanks!
Sam

Welcome aboard from Connecticut!

Getting down to brass tacks (whatever that means!) I advise anyone starting into this wonderful hobby to start easy. I recommend the 3 kit starter series by Model Expo as a great way to start. (I have no connection to Model Expo but I have done a number of their kits.) The Dory is the first kit. If you send them a picture of the completed dory they will give you full store credit for it . The instruction are clear and there are many build logs on here to follow. I would highly recommend that you do NOT start with a more advanced kit. It often leads to frustration and a waste of money. I had many years of plastic modeling before I started on the Dory, and I really believe it is a great way to go.

You can order the kits separate or all 3 together and with or without basic tools. Check Model Expo often as they have sales.

https://www.modelexpo-online.com/products/model-shipways-shipwright-3-kit-combo-series-with-tools-glue-and-paint?_su_rec=

Rob

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Scratch builders accomplish a genuinely impressive thing IMO. It's ok to be proud of it. The only vaguely snobbish thing I've read is complaint that modern kits have too many prefabricated parts. Hard to take someone seriously if they want to be snobbish about fabricating parts themselves, but don't want to scratch build.

Too many prefabricated parts. Really? Try building a Corel kit!

 

[DocTom]

Welcome to SoS from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts! I don't want to wade into the whole kit vs. scratch debate (I'm currently a kit builder myself), but if you want to learn the techniques of building wooden ship models, I strongly second @Rob444's recommendation of the Model Expo 3 boat starter kits. They took me from being a complete novice to feeling I have the skills to be a scratch builder.

Tom

 

[Roger Pellett]

And, these three beginners models from Model Shipways build historically accurate models that you can be proud of.

Roger

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

Kit quality, from materials to instructions to laser cuts, is obviously a valid subject of discussion
Horace

i agree but rather discuss it again how about reviewing it. The problem is the topic is shattered into posts in a lot of different threads. This forum Ships of Scale has been active nonstop for years and has the biggest data base on the subject of model ship building, every subject has been discussed at some point and to some degree. Rather than searching for a needle in a haystack in a field of a 100 haystacks narrow the search down. If you find this thread interesting what you do is click on the persons icon and find everything they posted. so you can click on me and roger and Krut and others and you will find threads on kits and scratch and pro and cons of both. Go to the school and click on the people posting in the school there is a wealth of posted information by these guys besides what you see in the school. When you find something interesting to respond to just post in that thread and it becomes alive.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Dave, that last thing you said sums up why this forum is so much fun.

 

[woodartist]

if in fact you have woodworking experience and some tools in the $2,000 range of kits you can scratch build a "museum quality" model of a ship maybe even two models at the price range. The quality of fine art ship modeling does not come in a box.

there is enough information here on sos to help and guide you through a scratch building project.

This is exactly right, the kits all have a level of compromise somewhere, some more than others. Scratch builds can also have compromises but the builder gets to choose those, if any, based upon his skill, time, and available materials and tools.

 

[Kurt Konrath]

I have been building kits of all kinds for many years, as teen doing plastic aircraft kits, to model train kits and now model ship kits.

After many years, on and off working on kits, I still consider myself a beginner, as I have not fully mastered many tasks, except turning cash into waste saw dust.

My goal with most kits, regardless of brand or accuracy of a kit, is just to build a nice looking kit, that 90% of those who look at it will never see anything wrong.

As Dave and others have said, "Its a hobby, and enjoy it" so I don't strive for 100% accuracy or appearance, I do what I like and enjoy it, it is my time to relax, and just cuss myself out for stupid mistakes when I don't look at plans or instructions, which they all say "read toughly before starting"

 

[ubjs]

This idea for the lessons was surely good, but the execution is a mess
DS is obviously not a teacher; if he were, he would know that you only get one chance to capture the students' attention.
You certainly don't achieve that with long monologues about the old days.
There are so many YouTube videos that are much better structured and offer far more than just still images (though, of course, there are plenty of bad ones too).

Perhaps DS could get help from a real teacher who knows how to structure his thread?
There is definitely good stuff in there, but it is well hidden.

 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

„Limited Edition“, „High end“ or „Museum Quality“ are only advertising descriptions. They are Chosen from the companies to sell their Kits.
„Limited Edition“ means that they produce only a special number of kits, nothing Else.
I don‘t know if there is a definition of the other terms. Who defines what museum quality is? My last styrene build was in an exhibition of a great museum (if it is there, I don‘t know). If it has museum quality, …?

I like scratch building, so I learned a little bit about the structures of the original ships. With this knowledge it is possible to find inaccuracies and mistakes in nearly every kit and also in my own projects. But this does not mean, that the kit is bad. You have to define, if you like what you buy and if it fits your expectations. If you are not sure, have a look in the different forums. And ask.

Then you get much better information as from the advertising words.

 

[Horace]

Kit quality, from materials to instructions to laser cuts, is obviously a valid subject of discussion
Horace

i agree but rather discuss it again how about reviewing it. The problem is the topic is shattered into posts in a lot of different threads. This forum Ships of Scale has been active nonstop for years and has the biggest data base on the subject of model ship building, every subject has been discussed at some point and to some degree. Rather than searching for a needle in a haystack in a field of a 100 haystacks narrow the search down. If you find this thread interesting what you do is click on the persons icon and find everything they posted. so you can click on me and roger and Krut and others and you will find threads on kits and scratch and pro and cons of both. Go to the school and click on the people posting in the school there is a wealth of posted information by these guys besides what you see in the school. When you find something interesting to respond to just post in that thread and it becomes alive.

New discussions on old topics are annoying for a small minority but good for the rest, and for the forum in general. It's never a bad idea to search old threads for information, and if you want to resurrect that thread, that's ok. But starting a new thread is fine too, and it's good for the forum. The voices of the minority who have seen it all and don't want to see it all again, are inevitable, but probably shouldn't be taken too seriously.

 

[Horace]

And, these three beginners models from Model Shipways build historically accurate models that you can be proud of.

Roger

Wasn't proud of the first two, but they taught me a lot. Unfortunately, it seems they are underwhelming to anybody who sees them after being told how long they took! But I'm working towards a proud third. Painting the hull of the lobster smack now. My planking and painting game is improving.

For someone looking to do a beginner's kit straight off the bat, which will also be impressive to random people looking at the finished build, I suspect the Sherbourne from Vanguard is the best choice. I'm doing that one now too, in parallel.