USS Constitution - Model Shipways

[Der Alte Rentner]

deleted duplicate post

 

[Jack Sparrow]

I tried it both ways. While there's not much of a difference, it is still slightly easier to do the rigging off the ship. The clip Hackle pliers helped in both cases.

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I did learn that trying to do four of these in one day is pushing it. I started to get antsy. As a consequence I'm not a hundred percent satisfied with some of the knot tying, but I'm going to live with the way it is.

ever here of tool called loom a line? If yes, do you think it would be something that I should buy?

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

ever here of tool called loom a line? If yes, do you think it would be something that I should buy?

I looked into them. I actually have one - inherited from a retired model builder, and sought advice on it's practicality. I was advised to pass. Search the topic here and you'll see for yourself. (My A/I agent sent me right back to SoS. So yours will likely to the same.) If you want mine, reach out to me in a direct message with mailing address and I'll gift it to you.

 

[Kurt Konrath]

I like the small clips shown holding lines while they are secured, I have a batch myself from electrical work in other hobbies, they are great to hold in place and I use them to hold light tension when lines are hanging down to get them to relax and stretch when first installed on masts.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

I looked into them. I actually have one - inherited from a retired model builder, and sought advice on it's practicality. I was advised to pass. Search the topic here and you'll see for yourself. (My A/I agent sent me right back to SoS. So yours will likely to the same.) If you want mine, reach out to me in a direct message with mailing address and I'll gift it to you.

ok. thanks. I was just thinking it would be easier to make the shrouds offline and then moving them to the boat. Maybe it's a gadget that doesn't work very well.

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

To all of you rigging experts viewing this build, I could use your help..

As I mentioned in post 440 (page 22), I just ran out of the 1.1mm cable laid rope I've been using on the main shrouds and plan to use the same diameter rope (left handed to match the "S" pattern) for the remaining shrouds. What I didn't mention is that the replacement rope is cotton, whereas the cable laid rope is polyester. I was watching YouTube videos on rigging this past weekend, and saw several that mentioned that the disadvantage of cotton over polyester is that it is prone to stretching over time. I'd hate to switch to something that may end up sagging over time. But I also hate the idea of losing another week or so waiting for replacement polyester cable laid rope. Going forward, I have a mixed supply of poly and cotton rope in various diameters. When I purchased these, I was making sure I had ample supply of the same color and diameter, but I had thought that the material didn't matter except for perhaps the look - matte (cotton) vs shiny (poly).

Do any of you have strong opinions on the subject? If so, please share your thoughts.

Shall I stick with polyester for consistency's sake?

Does cotton really loosen up over time, leading to sagging?

Or can I use the materials interchangeably?

 

[mtbediz1]

To all of you rigging experts viewing this build, I could use your help..

As I mentioned in post 440 (page 22), I just ran out of the 1.1mm cable laid rope I've been using on the main shrouds and plan to use the same diameter rope (left handed to match the "S" pattern) for the remaining shrouds. What I didn't mention is that the replacement rope is cotton, whereas the cable laid rope is polyester. I was watching YouTube videos on rigging this past weekend, and saw several that mentioned that the disadvantage of cotton over polyester is that it is prone to stretching over time. I'd hate to switch to something that may end up sagging over time. But I also hate the idea of losing another week or so waiting for replacement polyester cable laid rope. Going forward, I have a mixed supply of poly and cotton rope in various diameters. When I purchased these, I was making sure I had ample supply of the same color and diameter, but I had thought that the material didn't matter except for perhaps the look - matte (cotton) vs shiny (poly).

Do any of you have strong opinions on the subject? If so, please share your thoughts.

Shall I stick with polyester for consistency's sake?

Does cotton really loosen up over time, leading to sagging?

Or can I use the materials interchangeably?

I’ve never used polyester thread, so I don’t really know how cotton and polyester would look on the same model. But if you decide to go with cotton thread, I recommend running it through beeswax. That way it won’t loosen or sag, and the fuzz on the thread won’t show. This is how I use cotton thread myself, but it has to be natural beeswax, synthetic waxes sold on the market don’t give the same results.

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

Straight out of the packaging from ropes of scale, the two, polyester and cotton, side by side are almost indistinguishable. You can feel the difference by handling the cotton. I understand the business of using bees wax on the cotton. What I'm more concerned about is whether or not over time the cotton threads loosen up and begin to sag. Since you've built so many ships, and you have used cotton on all of them, I'm assuming you don't find this to be an issue. Is there some technique you use to prevent that from happening?

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Straight out of the packaging from ropes of scale, the two, polyester and cotton, side by side are almost indistinguishable. You can feel the difference by handling the cotton. I understand the business of using bees wax on the cotton. What I'm more concerned about is whether or not over time the cotton threads loosen up and begin to sag. Since you've built so many ships, and you have used cotton on all of them, I'm assuming you don't find this to be an issue. Is there some technique you use to prevent that from happening?

well i have a boat that is 4 years old and it's all cotton, the cheap stuff that is with the kit, and I don't find any sagging is occuring. I didn't really put any beeswax either. I don't know, maybe it takes longer than 4 years for that sagging to occur?

 

[dockattner]

well i have a boat that is 4 years old and it's all cotton, the cheap stuff that is with the kit, and I don't find any sagging is occuring. I didn't really put any beeswax either. I don't know, maybe it takes longer than 4 years for that sagging to occur?

I have been told the sagging/tightening is a result of changes in seasonal humidity - with some locations experiencing this more than others.

Peter, I have only used polyester ropes. The only downside I can claim is the ends need to be fixed with CA or something similar.

 

[mtbediz1]

Straight out of the packaging from ropes of scale, the two, polyester and cotton, side by side are almost indistinguishable. You can feel the difference by handling the cotton. I understand the business of using bees wax on the cotton. What I'm more concerned about is whether or not over time the cotton threads loosen up and begin to sag. Since you've built so many ships, and you have used cotton on all of them, I'm assuming you don't find this to be an issue. Is there some technique you use to prevent that from happening?

As you know, I make my own rope and run it through beeswax before using it. I firmly pull the rope between my fingers to work the wax into the fibers and remove any excess wax from the surface. That’s all I do.

I finished my Essex model about five years ago, and the rigging is still as taut as it was on day one.

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

I have been told the sagging/tightening is a result of changes in seasonal humidity - with some locations experiencing this more than others.

Peter, I have only used polyester ropes. The only downside I can claim is the ends need to be fixed with CA or something similar.

Turns out that Ropes of Scale doesn't have any of the cable-laid or any polyester rope with the same twist and size in stock. All I have on hand is the cotton left hand (S twist) in the same diameter as the poly cable-laid. I'm either going to have to chance it with cotton, wait on Ropes of Scale to start making the poly cable-laid rope, or side track myself with building my own rope walker and making my own rope.

That last option is going to take a while as I'm still waiting on parts, which at this point are only guesses as to what I need to build the gear assembly.

Back to armchair ship building/rope walk builder, but first, I'm making myself a Manhattan...

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Turns out that Ropes of Scale doesn't have any of the cable-laid or any polyester rope with the same twist and size in stock. All I have on hand is the cotton left hand (S twist) in the same diameter as the poly cable-laid. I'm either going to have to chance it with cotton, wait on Ropes of Scale to start making the poly cable-laid rope, or side track myself with building my own rope walker and making my own rope.

That last option is going to take a while as I'm still waiting on parts, which at this point are only guesses as to what I need to build the gear assembly.

Back to armchair ship building/rope walker making. but first, I'm making myself a Manhattan...

that's all you can do, really.

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

It's a little early for me to be posting pictures of this, but I've only got an hour left at the shop today and I really didn't feel like attempting to rig those cotton shrouds.

I've got a few options of attaching hooks to Spur Gears for the business end of the Rope Walk. I plan to sandwich these gears along with the primary 60 tooth gear between two sheets of plywood. Spacers will govern the distance between those sheets of plywood, and the Spur Gears will be suspended between them. Brass rod will pass through brass flange bearings glued into holes in the plywood panels.

Here are the flange bearings I'm waiting on, but have a feeling I'll be let down by Amazon. The delivery has been extended twice already. If these don't arrive, I'll get some brass bushings that don't have the flanges.



I was going to try to make a sketch illustrating the concept of the two plywood panels, but let this photo, cribbed from Steef66 in a post about his Rope Walk here at Ships of Scale, serve to illustrate the broad concept.



This was plan A for the hooks attached to the spur gear. What I don't like about it is how massive the hooks themselves are, and that I have to use nuts, flat, and lock washers to lock everything into place. That brass sleeve represents the flange bushing. I will need to get one on both of the spur gear, which could be problematic in and of itself.



This was Plan B, and yes I treated the wood with CA glue to harden it, but I'm not thrilled about the durability of a hardwood dowel in this case.

Now I could just insert the wooden dowel into the spur gear directly, but this was my first attempt, which would have included a brass 6 mm shaft poking out of the other end of the connector and going through the spur gear and bushings.




And here is the direction I think I am going to go. It would have been nice to get cup hook screws with machine threads, but they simply don't exist in this country. So I had to jury rig standard Ace Hardware hooks.

I drilled a hole in the brass rod just in a slightly smaller diameter than the OD of the thread at the end of the hook. I screwed the thread at the end of the hook into the brass rod, and was able to cut a thin thread, in effect using the hook itself as an ersatz tap. To secure the hook completely, I slathered epoxy on the hook's screw thread and drove it home into the brass rod. The thread itself was pretty tight to begin with; the epoxy is perhaps overkill, but I feel confident this is going to stand up under hard use.







I want to emphasize that these are just proofs of concept. I will turn the 6 mm diameter brass rod in the correct lengths to pass through the bushings in the plywood panels and the spur gears.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Did you determine at what rpm you will run your machine?

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

Did you determine at what rpm you will run your machine?

I bought the 300 RPM Motors and my controller will let me slow that down to whatever I might need to. The central gear will run at 300 RPM max, which in theory will drive the Spur Gears at 600 RPM, max.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

I bought the 300 RPM Motors and my controller will let me slow that down to whatever I might need to. The central gear will run at 300 RPM max, which in theory will drive the Spur Gears at 600 RPM, max.

oh ok. so it's a 2:1 gear ratio. mine is 3:1. i don't really plan on going faster than 300 to 400 rpm on the main gear. It seems to be a good spot to run that thing. after that it looks scary.