SCAM with kits

even the title of the topic is misleading Scam with a ZHL kit

we do not or at least I do not know if the kit in question is manufactured by ZHL or is ZHL like a middleman or distributer of the kit?

who are the actual manufactures and who are the distributers/vendors we do not know if it even a scam.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
we can look at this also from a company point of view. Even at the Lumberyard it might take days to get back to a customer because we are a small mom and pop business and the owner EV also works another job. It is not that we do not want your business but we are doing the best we can. This might be an issure with many small operations.
it is not like small businesses have a staff of people standing by for customer services.

how can we handle this?

good question

maybe start by offering back rounds of some of these businesses who they are, what they do, are they a small artisan shop, a mom and pop operation, a multi million dollar world class operation.

this hobby of static model ship building is way down the list of hobbies so it can not support big business, most companies are small with a limited people running the show
Click to expand...
Dave I agree with what you said. I ran a 2 man show for 30 years. But I have to say the longest we ever took to get back to a customer was the day after they called. We always tried to return the call ASAP.
In regards to the company I alluded to above it’s been 10 days since my first email. I suppose it could have gone to junk mail but I highly doubt it. When do you decide whether to deal with them or not.
John
 
I also fell for something similar - a site selling toys etc with the kit Billings HMS Warrior. The credit card company even contacting me to confirm the purchase. After 4 weeks I received a woman's silk scarf. I contacted them by mail and they actually replied and suggested that it would be useful !!. My credit card company advised posting it back to them and requesting refund. I did this but heard nothing more. The credit card company has now refunded my money.
 
this may very well be the next shopping scam to create a store front in one of these malls and offer one thing and send another. The malls themselves will protect the buyer.
I can create a store and offer model kits at reduced prices when someone orders from my store I don't have any kits so I send crap I found at the good will. how that works is beyond me if the mall refunds the money. maybe Mike has some insight on this

this has nothing to do with model ship kit themselves so this is why it is a good idea for kit manufactures around the world run an ad here on the forum and where to purchase their products.
 
Last edited:
in order for any manufacture anywhere in the world to have ad space and post information about their company and products we at SOS have to provide a safe and friendly place not only for the hobby builders but also the companies.
A fear of any company talking about their products then being falsely accused of this or that, being called names etc not only here but on Facebook or other forms of social media and forcing us to lock down a topic because it is going wrong. This deprives not only companies from getting involved but as builders they are prevented from getting information.
Myself as a business man and working for a model company I would think twice posting my R&D or new products or anything if I were to be slandered and bashed on some social media platform. I would just shut up. Now that does not help the hobby now does it?

so before we at SOS can offer a service of who is who and where to purchase products and what might be a scam we need to do a little brain storming.
 
I have not read this thread in detail. Based on what I have read, DO NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING ON THE NET USING YOUR CREDIT CARD, use PAYPAL, why? because YOU WILL GET YOUR MONEY BACK. The seller will be cautioned by PAYPAL and if there are too many refunds/complaints PAYPAL WILL drop them. A friend of mine in Brisbane paid AU$400 for a camera lens via credit card, never saw his money OR the camera lens.
 
Not just PayPal my friends.... but Amex, Visa, and Mastercard will refund you as well. It was already stated a couple times earlier in this thread. If your credit card company calls you and asks you about a transaction then perhaps you should say NO. It really is difficult to get ripped off unless you try. But why bother with all these kind of places... please support the maker of the kits and purchase directly from them when possible... or a reputable online store like Amazon or EBay.
 
Dave Stevens

Ok, understood, but this online shop pretends to be a very large organization, selling hundreds (thousands?) of products, it is not modelling oriented. The only product I saw there retaled to our hobby was exactly that advertisement of the Misticque.

By the way they didn't answer yet and I don't believe they ever will.

It was the first time that I met this kind of scam and I buy by mail order since the 70s long before the online and I have never had a problem. Need to be more carefuil, no doubt.


Eric 61

This particular site does not accept Paypal.


mrshanks

I don't understand your point, sorry. If I buy online and I make a payement by credit card, my bank (the issuer of my card) debits my account,the momment they are contacted by the seller with my card data. Can't see how this can be reversed several days after when I discover that I was scammed.

And portuguese banks have a facility that allows me to create a dummy (virtual) credit card valid only for the ammount I specify, with a very short life and valid only for one transaction. Very safe, but useless once the payement is made by the bank.

If they refunded me just for me saying so, then I could order, receive and ask for the refund with the pretext that I had received nothing. They are smarter than that, that's why they are still in business.


Regards

JL
 
Last edited:
Hi Dave

Not sure why you have included Modelers Central in your post. They are a reputable Australian website that I have been dealing with for nigh on 30 years.
They are also the only Australia manufacturer of kits that I know of.

www.modelerscentral.com

Model Ship Kits & Wooden Model Boat Kits | Modelers Central

Over 240 Wooden Model Ship Kits & Model Boat Kits. 1000's of Fittings, Plans & Tools. Order Online For Fast Delivery From The Largest Model Ship Store.
www.modelerscentral.com www.modelerscentral.com

cheers

Ross
 
Yes, most Australians have purchased at modellers central from time to time. I have been for 30 years myself when it was owned by a fellow called Brian.

By the way, ZHL have nothing to do with this thread, so the thread topic should be edited, in all fairness.
 
Agree, I have bought from Ali-express lots of times and the only time I had a small problem it was refunded by Ali exoress after the 50 day resolution process.

There are lots and lots of unknown places online selling goods.

Simple rule of thumb, "If seems to good to be true then it probably is."

Yes you can get a bargain sometines, but sometimes you get exactly what you paid for cheap - cheap.
Xmas and the lead up are then major time for fraud.

Chinese sites expect you to discuss in detail your purchases. Ebay is full of both good and not so good sellers. So is Amazon
As long as you do your research, there is normally no problems, but errors do occur.

For example i purchased a cheap set of Xmas lights from a reputable hardware store in Australia, only to get home and find out someone had replaced the contents of the box with an old set of lights!. Yep they refunded and couldn't believe what someone had done.

Keeping a list if suspect sites is good, but things change and bad dealers will swap out names once they know they have been spotted. Its all a game to them.
Perhaps keeping a list of good purchase choices may be a better idea. Not a sponser list but ref for places to sucessfully buy things for our hobby
ie places to by parts, wood, plans etc etc etc.

If you have spare funds you are willing to risk it on a "great bargain", go for it. You may win - you may not ( like buying shares)

If you don't then go with the more expensive, but mostly guaranteed sites. In a consumer savvy world a good seller has to much to loose by a bad sale.
 
First let me say something about DAVE AND Ev (LUMBERYARD) for a small mom and pop business to be servicing this ship model industry for 30 plus years is an amazing acomplishment, DAVE AND EV YOU SHOULD BE PROUD, and still going strong now how i by is a couple of ways once i find a company that has good service, and after sale service I STICK WITH THAT COMPANY, even if they are more expensive on a certain item that i am buying, if it is more then i can afford i skip it for the time being, a lot of people have sucess bying from ALI EXPRESS no doubt they are good but try to navigate there site ask a question on how to do something no answer if i havce to spend a whole day trying to make apurchase I SAY SCREW IT I will pay the EXTRA AND USE GLORIA, THE CHINESE COMPANY NOW CALLED CROWN HOBBYS, if i ask a question i get an answer if i do not understand something i get an answer, if i purchase a kit from a company and the transaction is smooth and OK but i have a after purchase question and can not get it answered will NOT BY AGAIN MY TIME IS TO SHORT TO WASTE IT, one example then i will be finished with this FARR RANT, recently i purchased a mill not from proxxon or the other well know sellers i purchased it from VANDA-LAY INDUSTRYS, now i have a problem of assembling parts just not mechanically inclined, i stated this before i made a purchase, and there were certain complications in the instructions now by count I SENT TRHEM 60 EMAILS WITH QUESTIONS AND I RECEIVED 60 REPLYS the last item i could not figure out was how to use the Z AXIS we exchanged quite a few more emails i was getting frustrated and so were they, took a shot and asked NIGEL OUR MEMBER HE LIVES 3,000 miles away from me never seen my product, took one emnail for each problem SOLVED, my point being that there are transactions that do not end with a purchase, there are after purchase details ALSO, AND FROM THE LOOKS OF THINGS BOTH CAF and TRIDENT MODELS BOTH FIT MY CRITERA FOR DOING BUSINESS WIT, MY 2 CENTS FOR WHATEVER IT BUYS. Don
 
Brian077 said:
Yes, most Australians have purchased at modellers central from time to time. I have been for 30 years myself when it was owned by a fellow called Brian.

By the way, ZHL have nothing to do with this thread, so the thread topic should be edited, in all fairness.
Click to expand...
You are correct - title is chanched
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
to create an E-com site is very expensive so many small businesses are turning to E-com shopping sites where they handle secure shopping and templates to build your store. These are your virtual shopping malls. It is very unlikely you will get ripped off from a transaction, however what you get may or may not be what you expected.

these shopping malls are not responsible for the products only the transactions and the processing of the orders.

I suspect the product offered in these shopping malls are the same a manufacture would offer anywhere else. It would be pointless for a kit maker to produce a
cheap version for a mall and a high end kit to be sold at another web location.





View attachment 122377View attachment 122378View attachment 122379View attachment 122380View attachment 122381View attachment 122382View attachment 122383View attachment 122384
Click to expand...

I can't understand this collection either. Modellers Central (earlier called Modellers Shipyard) has been a very reputable Australian company, which sells not only their self-developed kits, but also kits from well-known European and American kit manufacturers. I think to avoid any unjustified harm done, Dave needs to clarify his position and to correct his post.
Janos
 
Dicas said:
I don't understand your point, sorry.
Click to expand...

When you purchase anything online with a credit card and you do not receive the goods you expected, you simply call you credit card company and tell them. They will immediately refund your money and deal with the vendor. Just like PayPay does. You don't even have to get in the middle of it. It's call Electronic Consumer Protection. Every credit card has it. Sorry, I thought everyone was aware of this.

Also, just because a vendor does not use PayPay does not mean they are a scam. Not every vendor uses every card or financial service provider.

Correlation does not mean causation ....

My ONLY point in all this, please don't label an online business as a SCAM unless you have directly had a bad experience with them. I own a small business and would be very upset to see strangers talking about us like this without knowing what is going on.

It might be good to just end this thread... :)
 
My ONLY point in all this, please don't label an online business as a SCAM unless you have directly had a bad experience with them. I own a small business and would be very upset to see strangers talking about us like this without knowing what is going on.

It might be good to just end this thread... :)
Mike


just ending a thread tends to leave everything just hanging, which is not good in the long run. So let the thread develop. Like it was thought I was banging on Modelers Central that was not the intent. the post is about on line shops and malls as apposed to buying direct from the company.

getting ripped off goes both ways I get a custom order for a kit, I make the kit and send it to the customer. Then I get contacted by the Credit Card saying the purchase is contested. The buyer said he never ordered the kit and wants a refund. I said ok then return the kit and a refund will be sent.
the customer says he does not have the kit. His story is the Credit Card was stolen (he did not report that to the CC company) and someone ordered the kit. When it arrived they took the kit. I end up with no kit and the Credit Card company refunded the customer his $600.00 We showed the Credit Card company the receipt from the post office showing it was delivered to the customers address that did not matter.
 
At first, I didn't want to jump into this discussion. It is well said by everyone and had valid points either way. I am working in the IT (Information Technology) field for more than 25 years, and while security is not my primary responsibility, I may give some advice.

Scams target people of all backgrounds, ages and income levels across the world. There's no one group of people who are more likely to become a victim of a scam, all of us may be vulnerable to a scam at some time. Scams succeed because they look like the real thing and catch you off guard when you’re not expecting it. Scammers are getting smarter and taking advantage of new technology, new products or services, and major events to create believable stories that will convince you to give them your money or personal details.

Be smart and protect yourself! Be alert (not to be confused with the ship Alert :p) to the fact that scam exists. When dealing with people or businesses, in any shape or way, always consider the possibility that the approach may be a scam. Remember, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. There is something called SMP (Suggested Manufacturer Price). It is usually comprised of many factors including material cost, labor cost and ...you are correct, revenues!!! Just think for a moment: why would I spend money to made goods, sell those goods without returning at least what I have invested in??? If selling price it drastically low than the MSP tag, think twice!

Know who you are dealing with. If you are unsure of the legitimacy of a business, take some time to do a bit more research. Do a Google image search on photos or search the internet for others who may have had dealings with them. In the USA we have an organization BBB (link below). It is the Better Business Bureau. You can check the business and their ratings.

www.bbb.org

BBB: The Sign of a Better Business | Better Business Bureau®

BBB helps consumers and businesses in the United States and Canada. Find trusted BBB Accredited Businesses. Get BBB Accredited. File a complaint, leave a review, report a scam.
www.bbb.org www.bbb.org

Be careful when shopping online. Beware of offers that seem too good to be true, and always use an online shopping service that you know and trust. Think twice before using virtual currencies (like Bitcoin) - they do not have the same protections as other transaction methods, which means you can’t get your money back once you send it. Consult your credit card institution to find out the level of protection they offer. Use PayPal whenever possible.

Bring your questions here, There is a chance someone already finds out about it. United we stand, divided we fall
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top