As for the original question, something like a 30-minute documentary about the joys of model building, to be broadcast by whatever station wants to, certainly wouldn't hurt anyone.
From my perspective, model shipbuilding is "An activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation". I believe this is true for 90% of those involved in this 'hobby'. ( not a verified %, only a guess).
To me the bigger question is not how to get more people interested but, how to set the hook to keep them involved. I for one keep jumping from one 'hobby' to another and am currently pursuing another interest. For over 50 years I was making and flying RC model aircraft until such time as my eyes became a problem with depth perception and I had to look at other means to spend my money. To me it was never a money issue, it was what held my interest. You think model shipbuilding is expensive try watching your $25,000 turbine powered aircraft make an unscheduled landing. Can you say crash.
To me the bigger question is not how to get more people interested but, how to set the hook to keep them involved. I for one keep jumping from one 'hobby' to another and am currently pursuing another interest. For over 50 years I was making and flying RC model aircraft until such time as my eyes became a problem with depth perception and I had to look at other means to spend my money. To me it was never a money issue, it was what held my interest. You think model shipbuilding is expensive try watching your $25,000 turbine powered aircraft make an unscheduled landing. Can you say crash.
I appreciate your perspective, but I think it’s a bit too convenient—and frankly a little dismissive—to draw a sharp line between “art” and kit-based models. Who exactly defines that line, and on what authority? Is a model less meaningful simply because it began with pre-cut parts? That’s a narrow view of creativity, and it overlooks the real skill, interpretation, and effort that many modelers pour into their work, kit or not.
Calling kits “mass-produced hobby toys” might reflect how an art dealer views them in a commercial context, but we’re not in an auction house; we’re in a modeling community. And in this space, meaning is not defined by market value or exclusivity, but by what the builder achieves, learns, and expresses through the process.
Frankly, if someone elevates a kit build to a higher standard through modification (bashing), precision, historical research, or sheer artistry, how is that not worthy of recognition? Art isn’t defined by how you start, but by what you do with what you have. Dismissing kits wholesale feels more like gatekeeping than thoughtful critique—and I think this hobby has room for a broader, more inclusive definition of excellence.
I get where you’re coming from—and trust me, we all enjoy time at the bench—but this is exactly why the forum exists: to exchange ideas, challenge perspectives, and discuss the many sides of the craft we love. This thread, in particular, is meant for that kind of conversation. It may not be hands-on modeling, but it's still part of engaging with the hobby thoughtfully.
Debate doesn’t have to be sterile or stupid—especially when it leads to better understanding and, hopefully, respect for the many ways people approach this passion. Everyone contributes in their own way, some with wood and glue, some with words. That said, I’ll be back at the workbench soon, too, promise!
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I'm slightly abashed to say it's because the next step in my build is fairing the frames, which is not a job I enjoy enormously, so I'm putting it off with random diversions like this thread and eating, lots of eating, chocolate, ice cream, cheese, all the good stuff...
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It might be argued that a scratch built model ship isn't an original piece because it's just a small copy of an object designed long ago by someone else. You know, like a really well done photo of the Mona Lisa.
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I appreciate your perspective, but I think it’s a bit too convenient—and frankly a little dismissive—to draw a sharp line between “art” and kit-based models. Who exactly defines that line, and on what authority?
the art gallery owner defines that line. and on what authority? maybe a master degree in fine art
to define art it is whatever the artists says it is
Is a model less meaningful simply because it began with pre-cut parts?
to some yes to others no
It might be argued that a scratch built model ship isn't an original piece because it's just a small copy of an object designed long ago by someone else. You know, like a really well done photo of the Mona Lisa.
there was a great video on that topic i will see if i can find it
the art gallery owner defines that line. and on what authority? maybe a master degree in fine art
to define art it is whatever the artists says it is
Is a model less meaningful simply because it began with pre-cut parts?
to some yes to others no
It might be argued that a scratch built model ship isn't an original piece because it's just a small copy of an object designed long ago by someone else. You know, like a really well done photo of the Mona Lisa.
there was a great video on that topic i will see if i can find it
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Ditto.
I'm so sorry Pepite. I tried really hard to resist making that obvious rejoinder but no-one else did and I just couldn't help myself.
I'm a bad boy and will go to bed without my supper. (I'm too full to eat anything else anyway.)
Fairing the frames is exactly what like best about the whole build. The whole shape of the hull depends on it. If you don't like it, then never try to build an old Steingraeber kit, like I'm actually doing (the 'Atropos'). Just got a few hollow spots, much better than I expected, anyway. So, courage to you.I'm slightly abashed to say it's because the next step in my build is fairing the frames, which is not a job I enjoy enormously, so I'm putting it off with random diversions like this thread and eating, lots of eating, chocolate, ice cream, cheese, all the good stuff...
That’s a bold claim, Dave, but I’d argue it oversimplifies a much more complex reality. Saying that “the art gallery owner defines what is art” is like saying only a critic decides what makes a good book. Galleries, dealers, and curators have influence, sure—but their perspective is shaped by trends, markets, and personal biases. That’s hardly an absolute standard.
And while it’s true that “art is what the artist says it is,” that philosophy—famously associated with Duchamp and conceptual art—was meant to challenge rigid definitions, not create new ones. If we accept that idea, then we also have to accept that a kit-based model, elevated through creativity, skill, and personal vision, can be just as much a work of art as any scratch-built piece.
Art isn’t confined to the white walls of a gallery or the signature of a “known” artist. It lives where intention, execution, and emotional or intellectual resonance meet—and by that measure, ship modeling absolutely qualifies, in all its forms, IMHO
No need to apologize, you didn't make this fuss. Lean back and enjoy the clown show...
I think you created a wonderful topic and contend the thread has followed rather closely: should we promote model shipbuilding and how? Perhaps you intended to only talk about developing a TV show - but there was only one person who (wrongly) thought the conversation was inappropriate for a model ship building site.
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In the early 1970’s I finished my first reasonably accurate scratch model; a 1:48 scale bugeye Lizzy J. Cox. It now resides in a doctor’s office. Since then I have built 10 additional originally researched scratch built models.
In 2005 I retired from a demanding career with a definite retirement plan: sailing on Lake Superior, volunteering for the local museum caring for the World’s last remaining Great Lakes Whaleback Steamship, and Ship model building. During this long retirement I have been able to do all three things. I sailed until Covid ended the life of my last sailing friend. My museum volunteering ended in 2019 with my authoring a published book, and my 15 minutes of fame via the book award circuit.
This leaves ship model building. I am presently engaged in a very lengthy project; A Great Lakes Freighter. If I live long enough to finish it, I have reason to believe that it will be publicly displayed. Donated not sold. Meanwhile, I have tried to support other ship model builders, as opposed to the hobby itself. I have given away books, drawings, surplus materials, and last but not least, have answered questions from beginners, and have participated in discussions with other more experienced modelers, both on two different forums. I am also generous with the “Like Button” including many modeling attempts that fall short.” I never personally ctiticize the modeling attempts of another builder. Telling someone that the kit that they have purchased will not let them achieve the results that they are looking for is different and in my humble opinion OK.
I don’t know how to gracefully say this But: I do have a couple of frustrations. One: someone writes in to ask a question about a feature of a kit that they are building. After researching the question and providing the answer they respond “Oh I’m not trying to build a historically accurate model, I’m just having fun!” Instead, a simple “Thank You” would be nice.
My second frustration involves responding to the “I could never do that crowd.” I know of NOBODY who says this that has any intention of trying to build a model. What they really mean is, I COULD do that but I have better (more socially acceptable) ways to spend my time. It’s dismissive.
I’m sorry, but I also don’t like kits that intentionally don’t build a realistic model. This includes movie pirates ships. I agree that some Kits can be built into very nice, accurate models; for example, see Chuck’s (The Gavel) model of Harriett Lane.
Roger
In 2005 I retired from a demanding career with a definite retirement plan: sailing on Lake Superior, volunteering for the local museum caring for the World’s last remaining Great Lakes Whaleback Steamship, and Ship model building. During this long retirement I have been able to do all three things. I sailed until Covid ended the life of my last sailing friend. My museum volunteering ended in 2019 with my authoring a published book, and my 15 minutes of fame via the book award circuit.
This leaves ship model building. I am presently engaged in a very lengthy project; A Great Lakes Freighter. If I live long enough to finish it, I have reason to believe that it will be publicly displayed. Donated not sold. Meanwhile, I have tried to support other ship model builders, as opposed to the hobby itself. I have given away books, drawings, surplus materials, and last but not least, have answered questions from beginners, and have participated in discussions with other more experienced modelers, both on two different forums. I am also generous with the “Like Button” including many modeling attempts that fall short.” I never personally ctiticize the modeling attempts of another builder. Telling someone that the kit that they have purchased will not let them achieve the results that they are looking for is different and in my humble opinion OK.
I don’t know how to gracefully say this But: I do have a couple of frustrations. One: someone writes in to ask a question about a feature of a kit that they are building. After researching the question and providing the answer they respond “Oh I’m not trying to build a historically accurate model, I’m just having fun!” Instead, a simple “Thank You” would be nice.
My second frustration involves responding to the “I could never do that crowd.” I know of NOBODY who says this that has any intention of trying to build a model. What they really mean is, I COULD do that but I have better (more socially acceptable) ways to spend my time. It’s dismissive.
I’m sorry, but I also don’t like kits that intentionally don’t build a realistic model. This includes movie pirates ships. I agree that some Kits can be built into very nice, accurate models; for example, see Chuck’s (The Gavel) model of Harriett Lane.
Roger
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I don't think there is anything wrong with your conversation on this forum. But it strayed quite a bit from the original question. Kaya61 did ask a simple enough question, and got a philosophical treatise about the merits of ship model building. He may not be one of the first fiddles on this forum, but I think he still deserves the respect to get a comprehensive answer to his question.
Thank you very much Dear Master...
Hey, I am no one's master, but no one's slave either.
Hmm.
But, as the originator has now posted that he/she believes the thread has strayed from the intended topic, we have no choice but to agree. Authorial intent cannot be doubted.
My apologies @KAYA61 - I understood the thread to be about how we might promote the hobby...and I took umbrage with the poster who intimated that we shouldn't.
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There's no doubt that the conversation has wandered away from your original question about making a TV show. However, It seems to me that we have collectively explored exactly what aspects of modelling we might or might not respect. Which has been interesting to me at least, and judging by the (thankfully polite) passions in evidence, it's been interesting to the rest of the participants.
I also think this debate might also have pointed the way to get your TV show made.
NOW, imagine a short documentary series about building model boats. The audience sees some people working for hundreds of hours on a hobby where nothing much happens. I barely move around when I'm modelling. I sit at a desk and move my hands a bit. Even I, a modeller, would find it boring watching someone else build a model. Let's face it, most of our build logs are tedious in the extreme, because not much happens and it happens really slowly. The ones worth watching are the ones where there's a series of cock-ups and crises and a resolution on the last page.
Day to day modelling is never going to be compelling enough for broadcast TV except for those strange pay channels which have fewer viewers than the shopping channels. Netflix wouldn't give it server room. One of the most subscribed YouTube model ship sites has less then 50k subscribers, which is one sixth as many as a channel called Meow Meow which is about cute cats (Highly recommended.
). That suggests that just building ships isn't enough to hold the interest of many YouTubers either.HOWEVER, a series built around lots of passionate modellers, having an argument, possibly a rude one and preferably a violent one? That might fly, or rather sail. Put a chattering of modellers in the Big Brother House and let them fight it out with sandpaper and bending irons and you'd have the audience lashed to their TVs. You'd need scratchbuilders, an expert who never actually builds anything, kit builders, kit designers, plastic modellers, LEGO modellers with their little pirates, junk modellers (the most creative of them all?), aftermarket entrepreneurs, forum managers from feuding forums. And so on...
By gum, it would be unmissable! Prime time entertainment!
I'd buy a TV in order to watch that.
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