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Anchor cable attachment?

M

mark99

Joined
Oct 4, 2022
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Kirkland, WA
This is in regards to a digital model I am building of the Armed Virginia Sloop, only I am making it unarmed

This seems like a simple question, but the ‘answers’ I see looking at the book or builds seem odd to me

The book says to run the end of the cable down through the grate on the forward hatch

All but one of the builds I have looked at follow this advice

It seems to me that if the cable was tied off to something below the grate, when the ship pulled on the anchor it would destroy the grate
 
Anchor cables were led to the bitter end in the cable storage locker. hence the term the "Bitter End" when refering to something on its last legs it was usually a smaller rope so that it could be cut in an emergency after putting a buoy on the anchor cable so they could find it again
 
Normally the anchor cable is belayed to a fixed point in deck when the anchor is deployed. The cable slotted through the grate is for storage into the cable locker below deck. The anchor and the anchor cable are usually modeled in their stowed positions which is why you see the cable being fed down through the hatch grating.
 
thanks and thanks, on this model, Armed Virginia Sloop, the book and plans show a sold hatch cover on the forward port side and a grated cover just aft of the stove pipe, so if one uses that the cable would be right by the galley, stove
I will post a screen shot in a bit
Thanks again
 
Hi Mark.
when a windlass is used the windlass took all the strain of the ship at anchor. the cable passing over and down the fore hatch carried it's weight only.
It was stopt to the windlass with a sqr peg called a NORMAN. Another longer bar was put in one of the sqr holes and jambed against the deck. In the case of Investigator (in my plan) the cable was coiled on the lower deck amidships. It was by no means a huge cable but at 13" it would have taken a bit of handling.
On a ship without a windlass the cable was retrieved using the capstan. The cable was then secured to the cable bits at the foremast. Harland's Seamanship in the age of sail is a great resource for this type of ship handling info.
Regards
Allan
 

Attachments

thanks every one, see attached screen grabs

I might do a post with more detail in the CAD section, but a short background, I started with a 3D model I purchased, I have remade almost all of the model, only keeping most of the rigging and iron fittings

This model is of the Armed Virgina Sloop

The book / plans / instructions don’t show a capstan, some people that have build this kit have added one



Here are a couple screen shots of my CGT model, almost done with it, I know there are errors

Not show, the sails and some of the rigging



The hatch, deck items are pretty much per the book / plans / instructions

screen grabs 12 24 2022 1.jpg

screen grabs 12 24 2022 2.jpg

screen grabs 12 24 2022 3.jpg
 
In this case, as with many period ships, the anchor cable is fed through the hawse holes in the bow to a below deck windlass and then into the cable locker. Thus no cable is fed on deck and down through a grating. The windless can have sections on multiple decks and be used to belay the anchor when deployed…thus the anchor cable would be hauled by the windless section below deck. The anchor cable in several of my models is handled through a bow hawse hole rather than on deck. So in the case of your Armed Virginia Sloop run the anchor cable through the hawse hole in the bow. “HAWSE-Holes, are certain cylindrical holes cut through the bows of a ship on each side of the stem, through which the cables pass in order to be drawn into, or let out of the vessel, as occasion requires.” [Falconer’s New Universal Dictionary of the Marine, 1815 ed.]. When in doubt default to the hawse holes for routing anchor cables…
 
danielsje said:
In this case, as with many period ships, the anchor cable is fed through the hawse holes in the bow to a below deck windlass and then into the cable locker. Thus no cable is fed on deck and down through a grating. The windless can have sections on multiple decks and be used to belay the anchor when deployed…thus the anchor cable would be hauled by the windless section below deck. The anchor cable in several of my models is handled through a bow hawse hole rather than on deck. So in the case of your Armed Virginia Sloop run the anchor cable through the hawse hole in the bow. “HAWSE-Holes, are certain cylindrical holes cut through the bows of a ship on each side of the stem, through which the cables pass in order to be drawn into, or let out of the vessel, as occasion requires.” [Falconer’s New Universal Dictionary of the Marine, 1815 ed.]. When in doubt default to the hawse holes for routing anchor cables…
Click to expand...
Thanks! that makes sense, and will look right, in the screen grabs I posted you can see a green curve, I will just lower where it intersects the hull
 
danielsje said:
In this case, as with many period ships, the anchor cable is fed through the hawse holes in the bow to a below deck windlass and then into the cable locker. Thus no cable is fed on deck and down through a grating. The windless can have sections on multiple decks and be used to belay the anchor when deployed…thus the anchor cable would be hauled by the windless section below deck. The anchor cable in several of my models is handled through a bow hawse hole rather than on deck. So in the case of your Armed Virginia Sloop run the anchor cable through the hawse hole in the bow. “HAWSE-Holes, are certain cylindrical holes cut through the bows of a ship on each side of the stem, through which the cables pass in order to be drawn into, or let out of the vessel, as occasion requires.” [Falconer’s New Universal Dictionary of the Marine, 1815 ed.]. When in doubt default to the hawse holes for routing anchor cables…
Click to expand...
would there be an escutcheon of some sort around the hole? To protect the edges of the planks?
 
@ mark99, one of many issues on ships of scale is telling good information from bad. If you find this hobby interesting you should probably read extensively and form your own best opinions, you'll be much better off.
 
Hi Mark.
There has to be some method of retrieving anchors. Either a capstan and cable bits or a windlass. Without doing any research I don't know if your sloop had one or the other. My guess would be a windlass. Here is a pic (credit to the other site and builder) which I think is on the right track. Also a draught showing a windlass.
Regards Allanvirginia sloop.jpegKITE_1778_RMG_J2044.jpg
 
alpayed said:
Hi Mark.
There has to be some method of retrieving anchors. Either a capstan and cable bits or a windlass. Without doing any research I don't know if your sloop had one or the other. My guess would be a windlass. Here is a pic (credit to the other site and builder) which I think is on the right track. Also a draught showing a windlass.
Regards AllanView attachment 347519View attachment 347521
Click to expand...
thanks, I think this ship, set of plans etc. started with the book: Modeling an Armed Virginia Sloop of 1768 by Feldman, I have and have read that book, there is a kit of this, that was based on the book, I have the kit, and they sell a set of large plans, which I have, none of those show a windlass or other device on the deck
I had come across the build that you show the photo of, and he talks about adding the windlass that is not in the plans
He made a little more fore - aft space by putting the stove pipe on top of the aft grate, and probably moving that grate aft
 
mark99 said:
thanks, I think this ship, set of plans etc. started with the book: Modeling an Armed Virginia Sloop of 1768 by Feldman, I have and have read that book, there is a kit of this, that was based on the book, I have the kit, and they sell a set of large plans, which I have, none of those show a windlass or other device on the deck
I had come across the build that you show the photo of, and he talks about adding the windlass that is not in the plans
He made a little more fore - aft space by putting the stove pipe on top of the aft grate, and probably moving that grate aft
Click to expand...
The windlass would be below deck…which is why it is not seen on the main deck…
 
danielsje said:
The windlass would be below deck…which is why it is not seen on the main deck…
Click to expand...
Such sloops were very small vessels, and I have my doubts, that they had enough space and height under deck for a capstan or windlass.
I think on such ships it was on deck.

BTW: usually when the ship is sailing, the opening of the stove pipe should be turned by 180° towards the bow - so the smoke can follow the wind, which is blowing usually somehow from backwards
 
maybe take also a look at this post I made in the past

Armed Virginia Sloop (scratch 1:100)

Hello everybody, I start the construction report a little late, but I hope it is worth presenting. To take a break from the "The Seven Provinces" I started building Armed Virginia Sloop 1768. They were small units that evolved from the so-called Bermuda-Jamaica-Chasepeake Sloops (circa 1740)...
shipsofscale.com
 
Thanks all,

I agree, not much space below deck, not enough to run something with long leverage poles, really barely enough room to walk

I placed a few 6 foot figures in the model

Forward of the mast, the person with a little headroom is almost at the keel, so the deck he is standing on would have almost no width



Back to the windless or not and what to do with the anchor cable

I found this question and discussion on another forum and someone quotes from the book The Search for Speed Under Sail 1700-1855 by Howard I. Chapelle

I get the feeling he knows what he is talking about

He says, page 173:

The absence of a windlass, or capstan, in many of the American schooners of this period requires explanation. The relatively large crews, particularly in the privateers or letter-of-marques, could manhandle the cable and anchor by means of tackles stopped to the cable.

I bought this book, inexpensive

So I am going with no windlass

What to do with the cable?

The book says, wrap and tie it to the bits just forward of the mast and run the rest through the grate

That seems awkward, it would land on the stove, and already it seems like it would be almost impossible to get around the stove

The instructions for the kit say: your choice, leave it off, coil on deck, run it through a grate

If I left it off, people might wonder where it is, and besides it adds interest

If just coiled on deck, I think it would work itself overboard

I have not done it yet, but I plan on trying, running it to the bits, then coiling it on deck

In the book, he says 100 feet long, so that will be ‘only’ 10 coils of 5 feet long

hull side with figures 1 9 2023.jpg
 
mark99 said:
This is in regards to a digital model I am building of the Armed Virginia Sloop, only I am making it unarmed

This seems like a simple question, but the ‘answers’ I see looking at the book or builds seem odd to me

The book says to run the end of the cable down through the grate on the forward hatch

All but one of the builds I have looked at follow this advice

It seems to me that if the cable was tied off to something below the grate, when the ship pulled on the anchor it would destroy the grate
Click to expand...
Hallo @mark99
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Birthday-Cake
 
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