Ancient Phoenecian Trading Boats - Build log by PT-2

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Can anyone tell me of a company who produces a kit for the ancient Phonecian trading or general transport boats, not war ships about 1,500 B.C.. Alternatively if there are plans sufficient for a scratch build I would like to know how to get those. I have seen some images in Google searches of the boats but nothing about kits. Thanks for your assistance. Rich (PT-2)
 
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I did some research on Phoenecian boats several years ago. There is almost nothing known except for a few crude clay models found in tombs. Here is an example:
 phoenecian clay model top view.png
Any modern reproductions will be just a guess, and probably not a very good one.
 

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Joined
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I did some research on Phoenecian boats several years ago. There is almost nothing known except for a few crude clay models found in tombs. Here is an example:
View attachment 248565
Any modern reproductions will be just a guess, and probably not a very good one.
I can understand the problem as wooden vessels would deteriorate very quickly if not promptly covered in silt (entombed) and oxygen sealed off, not so say boring worms and other fauna of the sea. Was there a photo of the side elevation of this clay model? I would like to compare that with some artistic/scholarly speculations such as this one that I found in a Googled up document:
Phoenecian trade boat framing.jpg
Not very large though I used a full image second step to the insertion. I printed out a few others showing a horse head bow like a Viking long boat dragon head. Thank you for sending this clay model view and if you have an elevation view to tag on. Rich (PT-2)
 
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I can understand the problem as wooden vessels would deteriorate very quickly if not promptly covered in silt (entombed) and oxygen sealed off, not so say boring worms and other fauna of the sea. Was there a photo of the side elevation of this clay model? I would like to compare that with some artistic/scholarly speculations such as this one that I found in a Googled up document:
View attachment 248651
Not very large though I used a full image second step to the insertion. I printed out a few others showing a horse head bow like a Viking long boat dragon head. Thank you for sending this clay model view and if you have an elevation view to tag on. Rich (PT-2)
If you Google "Clay models of Phoenician ships" and click on images you'll see the very few that are known. This one might be what you are looking for:
Screen Shot 2021-08-07 at 6.23.12 PM.png

In my opinion the Phoencians were the greatest seafaring people ever, even in comparison to the Vikings. In the crudest of boats they made it all the way around the Cape of Good Hope in around 600 BCE beating De Gama 2100 years. But for the most part they are mysterious, leaving no written records. To my knowledge, other than the clay models there are no other depictions of their boats. You can get a bit more info by spending a few dollars omn a used copy of "Ships and Seafaring in the Ancient World" by Lionel Casson. Good luck on your project. I'd be interested in what you decide to build.
 
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If you Google "Clay models of Phoenician ships" and click on images you'll see the very few that are known. This one might be what you are looking for:
View attachment 248692

In my opinion the Phoencians were the greatest seafaring people ever, even in comparison to the Vikings. In the crudest of boats they made it all the way around the Cape of Good Hope in around 600 BCE beating De Gama 2100 years. But for the most part they are mysterious, leaving no written records. To my knowledge, other than the clay models there are no other depictions of their boats. You can get a bit more info by spending a few dollars omn a used copy of "Ships and Seafaring in the Ancient World" by Lionel Casson. Good luck on your project. I'd be interested in what you decide to build.
Thank you for the additional quartering view. It will definitely be a significant resource in drawing up the lines for a model which is a project in itself. Rich
 
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@PT-2 Hello Rich,
searching on the term “gauloi” yields some interesting links. One in particular shows an image of a Phoenician ship on a sarcophagus. Possibly of some help to you?


1628424327779.jpeg
 
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@PT-2 Hello Rich,
searching on the term “gauloi” yields some interesting links. One in particular shows an image of a Phoenician ship on a sarcophagus. Possibly of some help to you?


View attachment 248812
That image I believe came from a sarcophagus in Lebanon. It is clearly a Roman ship from the era when Rome ruled the area and the Phoenicians were long gone.
 
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That particular image is shown in many places and erroneously, in my opinion, called a Phoenician ship. Here is the origin:
Roman ship from Sidon tomb.png

It dates from the 2nd century AD and is a typical Roman ship of the era with the characteristic swan's neck at the stern. It is one of the best depictions opf a Roman ship available. There are surprisingly few.
 
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That particular image is shown in many places and erroneously, in my opinion, called a Phoenician ship. Here is the origin:
View attachment 248859

It dates from the 2nd century AD and is a typical Roman ship of the era with the characteristic swan's neck at the stern. It is one of the best depictions opf a Roman ship available. There are surprisingly few.
Yes there is a lot of time between my focus around 1,500 BCE and 2nd Cent. AD. As with many assumed things, right or wrong if repeated sufficiently they become fact of the later time. I had seen this sarcophagus several placed and passed it by as my "smell test" did not prove it up. Thanks. When I get around to drawing my own trade boat it will be a combination of the clay artifacts and some of the assumed illustrations include one that tried to show a longitudinal section making the lower deck and framing visible. The framing question is a large one for any model as the planks mortise and tenon joinery that was posted from an appendix in one paper. Strip canoe models were built with the strips edge glued and later had faux frames added inside to the then solidified stripper hull. Obviously there are frames needed in both cases to lay the planks upon.
I appreciate your continuing searches and sharing of what you find. Rich (PT-2)
 
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Coincidences do happen. Right after I got an email from shipsinscale with your reply, I received an email from a site that sends me notifications of publications on nautical archaeology and it had the title:

PHOENICIAN EXPLANATION: EXAMINATION OF PUBLIC INTERPRETATION FOR THE BAJO DE LA CAMPANA SHIPWRECK EXCAVATION

You can read the paper at https://www.academia.edu/9313460/PH...IPWRECK_EXCAVATION?email_work_card=view-paper
It is about how museums display historic ships, but there is a good discussion of the Phoenician ship found off the coast of Spain and also the Uluburun wreck found off the coast of Turkey which might be just what you are looking for. It is of the right age and models have been built so some searching might uncover plans. Here is a pix of the model from the web:
Screen Shot 2021-08-09 at 11.15.23 AM.png

Hope this was helpful.
 
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Coincidences do happen. Right after I got an email from shipsinscale with your reply, I received an email from a site that sends me notifications of publications on nautical archaeology and it had the title:

PHOENICIAN EXPLANATION: EXAMINATION OF PUBLIC INTERPRETATION FOR THE BAJO DE LA CAMPANA SHIPWRECK EXCAVATION

You can read the paper at https://www.academia.edu/9313460/PH...IPWRECK_EXCAVATION?email_work_card=view-paper
It is about how museums display historic ships, but there is a good discussion of the Phoenician ship found off the coast of Spain and also the Uluburun wreck found off the coast of Turkey which might be just what you are looking for. It is of the right age and models have been built so some searching might uncover plans. Here is a pix of the model from the web:
View attachment 249061

Hope this was helpful.
This fulfills my needs beyond what I was anticipating. Thank you very much.
Rich (PT-2)
 
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This fulfills my needs beyond what I was anticipating. Thank you very much.
Rich (PT-2)
Here is a title link to Google for a lengthy paper with color photos of an interactive museam display. I had to work around a bit to be able to read the paper but found the boat photos most interesting.

PHOENICIAN EXPLANATION: EXAMINATION OF PUBLIC INTERPRETATION FOR THE BAJO DE LA CAMPANA SHIPWRECK EXCAVATION​

Rich (PT-2)
 
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Here is a title link to Google for a lengthy paper with color photos of an interactive museam display. I had to work around a bit to be able to read the paper but found the boat photos most interesting.

PHOENICIAN EXPLANATION: EXAMINATION OF PUBLIC INTERPRETATION FOR THE BAJO DE LA CAMPANA SHIPWRECK EXCAVATION​

Rich (PT-2)
This may be a workable link for the paper
Rich
 
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Hmm, thought I sent you a workable link but very happy you were able to acess the paper.
The problem on my end is that my internet browser associated with emails is Internet Explorer which Academia does not support to open their items. I have tried to change to Mozilla/Firefox without success as far as our email is set up. Rich
 
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The problem on my end is that my internet browser associated with emails is Internet Explorer which Academia does not support to open their items. I have tried to change to Mozilla/Firefox without success as far as our email is set up. Rich
Downloaded a Zip file with the plan sheet in TIF format which took a lot of work-arounds to finally get it printed out onto an 8.5 x 11 inch sheet with a top notation of 1:100 but without anything dimensioned for reference. I saw a crewman standing forward on the deck of the elevation drawing and made an assumption for his height, centuries ago, at 5"-6" and then used both my multiple point dividers to determine the boat length followed up by my engineering scale.
8.5 x 11 print of Trade Boat Plan Sheet with dividers.jpg
and estimated a length of 67 ft. followed up by using the scale
8.5x11 plan with engineering scale.jpg8.5x11 plan with engineering scale.jpg
Taking the letter size plan sheet to the local copy shop I had it printed out twice the size for a model which would be just over 13.6 inches long. Now to do some drafting to create more transverse sections for a mold around which to bend the edge joined hull strakes simulating the Bronze Age mortise and tenon joinery method. I'll post the progress as I go. Rich
 
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Downloaded a Zip file with the plan sheet in TIF format which took a lot of work-arounds to finally get it printed out onto an 8.5 x 11 inch sheet with a top notation of 1:100 but without anything dimensioned for reference. I saw a crewman standing forward on the deck of the elevation drawing and made an assumption for his height, centuries ago, at 5"-6" and then used both my multiple point dividers to determine the boat length followed up by my engineering scale.
View attachment 254073
and estimated a length of 67 ft. followed up by using the scale
View attachment 254074View attachment 254074
Taking the letter size plan sheet to the local copy shop I had it printed out twice the size for a model which would be just over 13.6 inches long. Now to do some drafting to create more transverse sections for a mold around which to bend the edge joined hull strakes simulating the Bronze Age mortise and tenon joinery method. I'll post the progress as I go. Rich
Drafting of Lines for Hull Mold.jpg
Starting to draft hull cut lines and transverse angle cuts to develop more transverse sections for a hull mold where the planks are set and connected edge to edge without frames.Mortise and Tenon Construction.jpg
 
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View attachment 254352
Starting to draft hull cut lines and transverse angle cuts to develop more transverse sections for a hull mold where the planks are set and connected edge to edge without frames.View attachment 254353
A friend who studied underwater archaeology in the Eastern Med. sent the following image of one interpretation of a recovery model from Kryenia in the Aegean Sea which I will use in part to modify the plan model being my own best melded resources examples scratch build.
Kyrenia Ship model.png
 
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