brass nails

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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anyone know where i can get tiny brass nails? i need them for the planking of the Tecumseth.

i found nails but they only list the lengths not the diameter the Tecumseth is 3/8 scale and the planking spikes were 1/2 inch with about a 3/4 head so i need 24 guage or 1/2 a mm or .020
i thought of 24 guage brass wire but i did not want to drill a hole a nail has a point so i can just hammer them in hopefully.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
anyone know where i can get tiny brass nails? i need them for the planking of the Tecumseth.

i found nails but they only list the lengths not the diameter the Tecumseth is 3/8 scale and the planking spikes were 1/2 inch with about a 3/4 head so i need 24 guage or 1/2 a mm or .020
i thought of 24 guage brass wire but i did not want to drill a hole a nail has a point so i can just hammer them in hopefully.
Click to expand...
I'd still consider pre-drilling nail holes to avoid splitting timbers...
 
The Amati fine 10mm very fine pins #4136/10 are the best nails I've used since they enter even hardwood wood without splitting it and with minimal friction. You can either push them in or tap them in with a tack hammer. Other pins from Amato which are not specifically labeled "finissimi" and are too thick. Search all the model ship suppliers online for the best price. Here are some links:

Cornwall Model Boats in UK

Wooden Model Ship Kit in USA

1640881685284.png

You'll also need the right pin pushing tool. The one on the right is for fine pins with small heads and is the one you want. The one on the left is for coarser, larger headed pins. I have two nail pushers, but I can't remember where I bought them.
1640881354134.png
 
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i saw the Amati pins and sent an Email asking what is the dia of the pins, dia. is more important than the length. it had been 20 days and no answer

i have found nails in model railroad supply but they are steel and steel will react to pearwood and turn the wood black.
i am trying to avoid this look and .020 is a scale size for the nails for the Tecumseth i want the nails to be subtle and not be "in your face" Brass in Pearwood will just about be noticable and you have to look to see the nails

i am thinking pre drilling a hole might be a good idea but i will try to use a needle and poke a starter hole then push in a nail if i can find the right size.

5190.jpg
 
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Check to insure they are actually brass and not just brass colored steel. The "brass" nails included in my kit did discolor the basswood planks and stick to a magnet...
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
i have found nails in model railroad supply but they are steel and steel will react to pearwood and turn the wood black.
Click to expand...
GAStan said:
Check to insure they are actually brass and not just brass colored steel. The "brass" nails included in my kit did discolor the basswood planks and stick to a magnet...
Click to expand...

That info. about steel nails discolouring pear and basswood is really good to know, thanks to both of you.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
i saw the Amati pins and sent an Email asking what is the dia of the pins, dia. is more important than the length. it had been 20 days and no answer

i have found nails in model railroad supply but they are steel and steel will react to pearwood and turn the wood black.
i am trying to avoid this look and .020 is a scale size for the nails for the Tecumseth i want the nails to be subtle and not be "in your face" Brass in Pearwood will just about be noticable and you have to look to see the nails

i am thinking pre drilling a hole might be a good idea but i will try to use a needle and poke a starter hole then push in a nail if i can find the right size.

View attachment 279317
Click to expand...
I measured one for you, Dave. It's 0.47mm diameter. The head is 1.05mm, and they are made from hard brass so they do not bend very easily. NOT STEEL. I tested them with a magnet to make sure.
 
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I have used Dark Annealed Steel Wire for rings and such on ship models, and it looks good. Do you think it also would react to the pear wood in the model I'm building, if inserted into drilled holes as pins and such? Just looking for iron-looking material for pins.
 
my order arrived from Dry-Dock
from my first tests this is going to be a real challenge
my intent is you uses actual scale nails and Dry-dock was the only place i could find them and they are tiny.


nail1.jpg

they look perfect when you can drive them in, i ordered 2 sizes the .03mm and .05mm doing the math Tecumseth scale is 1:32 1 inch = .031 the nails were tiny bit over 1/2 inch or .015 ok 1mm is .046 so 1/2 a mm = .023
when i tried the smaller nails they look like scale nails and not those big dots
i tried to push the .05 nail in and as you can see by the mark left in the wood i bent it. The .03 nails i first pushed a needle in the wood and then with light tapping i managed to sink the nails.

nail2.jpg

this works as long as the plank is flat and on a solid surface, i have not tried it on the model yet. OMG there are a lot of nails in in the model.
 
Dave, drill sets are available in the sizes you need, both imperial and metric. Why bother with the conversion malarky, when the correct drills are out there.
 
the more i look the more i am beginning to think this treenail thing used in ship building is more mythological than reality. Going back as far as 1780ish copper and iron bolts and spikes were used not treenails. I do not know how this misinformation about treenails started in model ship building but it does look like, it is not true.


Rather than model builders trying to make "treenails" just do what was really done and use copper wire and buy tiny nails from Dry-Dock models. That would save a lot of treenails making time and be more realistic than putting big dots all over your model.

P.S.
do not take this as a wide brush stroke of information because treenails were used but it does not seem to be a common thing. Perhaps this is how the treenail myth started it was taken as a truth for ALL ships of ALL time periods.

Studies done on ship wrecks all around North America this seems to be the truth

tn1.JPG
 
Get a good drill tool to use over and over again without wearing your fingers out.

I suggest one of the wood ball handle drills.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
the more i look the more i am beginning to think this treenail thing used in ship building is more mythological than reality. Going back as far as 1780ish copper and iron bolts and spikes were used not treenails. I do not know how this misinformation about treenails started in model ship building but it does look like, it is not true.


Rather than model builders trying to make "treenails" just do what was really done and use copper wire and buy tiny nails from Dry-Dock models. That would save a lot of treenails making time and be more realistic than putting big dots all over your model.

P.S.
do not take this as a wide brush stroke of information because treenails were used but it does not seem to be a common thing. Perhaps this is how the treenail myth started it was taken as a truth for ALL ships of ALL time periods.

Studies done on ship wrecks all around North America this seems to be the truth

View attachment 284739
Click to expand...
I don't really like the toothpick thing because they never seem to be close to scale diameters. Same with using those brass plated tacks that come with somany models. Thanks for passsing that on. Good to know!
 
Kurt Konrath said:
Get a good drill tool to use over and over again without wearing your fingers out.

I suggest one of the wood ball handle drills.
Click to expand...

i intent is to hand drill the holes by first using a pin and make a tiny starter hole for the drill then use one of those pin vices to do the drilling. It is a scarry process because if the drill wanders off point there is no fixing it.

something like this

pinvice.JPG
 
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