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Hi Rodolphe, although I think your comment is a bit patronizing, it seems you're right, thanks for pointing it out. I will keep it in mind for a future iteration of the model design.
Designing a kit - 17th Century Pinas Cross-Section (Kolderstok) [COMPLETED BUILD]
- Thread starter matthiasnoback
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Hi @Rodolphe, you haven't been honest in your first message. This wasn't about pointing out a problem in my design, but you wanted to point out a mistake in Ab Hoving's work. I had a feeling something was wrong, but replied anyway, mostly for the other readers here, to show that I deal with any potential criticism, mistakes, etc. I'm taking my work as a model designer seriously.
I want to make it perfectly clear: we are all human beings, who are likely to make mistakes. Even if the answers are in the original texts, we are dealing with an obscure topic from centuries ago, that isn't as well documented as we'd like. So it's good to be forgiving, and to let people learn and correct their mistakes. Also, in the case of Ab Hoving, I've found so much of his work so incredibly useful (and I'm sure many people will agree), that I think he deserves a nice treatment, even if he makes mistakes, that I'm also aware he admits and fixes.
It doesn't look great on you, as an online community member, to try and harm someone else's reputation and to go to such lengths to do so.
I want to make it perfectly clear: we are all human beings, who are likely to make mistakes. Even if the answers are in the original texts, we are dealing with an obscure topic from centuries ago, that isn't as well documented as we'd like. So it's good to be forgiving, and to let people learn and correct their mistakes. Also, in the case of Ab Hoving, I've found so much of his work so incredibly useful (and I'm sure many people will agree), that I think he deserves a nice treatment, even if he makes mistakes, that I'm also aware he admits and fixes.
It doesn't look great on you, as an online community member, to try and harm someone else's reputation and to go to such lengths to do so.
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I fully agree with the comments in terms of being forgiving of mistakes made. After all, everyone makes them. Likewise, I am very pleased that you also mention honesty and the ability to admit mistakes, and that these qualities are important to you.
But one cannot be naïve. Even the most eminent authors are capable of acting in very questionable ways, just to avoid admitting their mistakes.
I myself was the recipient of a clandestine (in private correspondence) offer of corruption, in which a very well-known author in the field offered me a bribe in the form of invitations to some symposia, in exchange for, somewhat generalizing, a cessation of my activity rendering modern publications by today's authors anachronistic. In this particular case, two very well-known authors from two different countries were even involved. I am aware that such creative trading may be considered virtuous in some circles, but clearly it can no longer fall into the category of ‘honest admission of error’.
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This does not surprise me in the least.
@Rodolphe "Jules van Beek"
It seems that you are using the forum to fight a personal vendetta against one of our other members as I have noticed many times before in different post all around our forum.
I would like to point out that ships of scale is a shipmodelers forum where we'd like to help and support each other. Offcourse there is a lot of room for discussion but constantly attacking one single author on his work is not something that should be part of the general discussion and is certainly not helping the hobby.
At ships of scale we love members contributing to the further development and grow of our hobby, and we'd like to see your ideas and supporting data based on your own research instead of constantly bullying the work of others. In the end we are all grown out of the play ground.
Actually the point you try to make is even incorrect, there are plenty of examples where ligger and oplang do not reach each other to form one ridged contruction.
As example I show you for instance Scheurrak T24. You see ligger and oplang not touching each other and they have used a small filler piece to fit the ceiling planks. You see the use of small filler pieces often, E81 is also an example where you see this in many of the frame members.
Drawing a frame contruction is a Dutch ship is a tough job anyway as every frame position is differenly build up depending on the available wood.
See below as example anpother Dutch wreck from the 17th century laying in Husum.
Looking forward to your shipmodel building blog or your upcoming book on Dutch 17th centrury ships.
It seems that you are using the forum to fight a personal vendetta against one of our other members as I have noticed many times before in different post all around our forum.
I would like to point out that ships of scale is a shipmodelers forum where we'd like to help and support each other. Offcourse there is a lot of room for discussion but constantly attacking one single author on his work is not something that should be part of the general discussion and is certainly not helping the hobby.
At ships of scale we love members contributing to the further development and grow of our hobby, and we'd like to see your ideas and supporting data based on your own research instead of constantly bullying the work of others. In the end we are all grown out of the play ground.
Actually the point you try to make is even incorrect, there are plenty of examples where ligger and oplang do not reach each other to form one ridged contruction.
As example I show you for instance Scheurrak T24. You see ligger and oplang not touching each other and they have used a small filler piece to fit the ceiling planks. You see the use of small filler pieces often, E81 is also an example where you see this in many of the frame members.
Drawing a frame contruction is a Dutch ship is a tough job anyway as every frame position is differenly build up depending on the available wood.
See below as example anpother Dutch wreck from the 17th century laying in Husum.
Looking forward to your shipmodel building blog or your upcoming book on Dutch 17th centrury ships.
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Many thanks, @Rodolphe. I noticed that in another thread, which I don't normally look at, you posted some fantastic pics of the Gent model. Do you have more of them that you can share? Or do you know anything about whether a 3D scan of this model has been made?
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And that is a very good idea!
For, let's call them technical reasons (need to register again, but not only), you could post these pics here in a separate thread and take the opportunity to add other shots to the collection already shown there. There's never enough unique stuff like this.
A very informative thread on Warshipvasa forum, by the way.
Many thanks, Jules!
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XXX
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I confirm that Jules did not at all pick on Ab in particular. He used to approach me as well, which I perceived at the time as troublesome, but now, from a more distant perspective, I estimate that this had an extremely positive effect, of a fundamental nature even, both for general research and for the hobby.
I think it is the attempts to annihilate criticism, especially by dishonest methods, that is most damaging, and probably in all aspects of life.
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