First build questions...

FrankJ said:
Hello all,

I am getting ready to start the OcCre Polaris..my first build and have a few questions...

What varnish should I use?

Can it be applied using an air brush?

I see I will need Contact Cement...I also read somewhere that it does not last. What is best to use?

What paints should be used...Enamel? Acrylic?

Thanks in advance...

Frank
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I have no idea about using contact cement on planking -- I wish I did because I am just starting the Lady Nelson and want to follow the Amati modelling class exactly, and that is what they use for second layer. However, with regard to contact cement holding up, I once built a (full size) kayak with a wooden frame and entirely skinned in varnished canvas. The canvas was only held to the wood and to other canvas with contact cement and it held and lasted for years in all kinds of conditions. It stayed pliable and watertight. I've since repaired several tents and boat covers with the same process and it holds and lasts very well.
 
If you can get your hand on Keith Juliers period ship handbooks, ( 4 in set), the are a wealth of information for the kit builder and explained in a very friendly new user fashion. Great reading. Ther are reviews of them o the site!
 
paulv1958 said:
If you can get your hand on Keith Juliers period ship handbooks, ( 4 in set), the are a wealth of information for the kit builder and explained in a very friendly new user fashion. Great reading. Ther are reviews of them o the site!
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Many thanks for the hint to Keith Juliers books - these books were also helping me

We have all five books written by him in our book reviews, so please take a look
Use this link:
 
FrankJ said:
Thanks for the advice Clair...the videos OcCre provides for the Polaris show them using Contact Cement for the deck and the second layer of planks. I could see using Wood Glue in its place but am at a loss as to how to clamp the planks to the deck and the second layer of planks to the sides.
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FrNk, I did not haven’t to clamp down deck PVA worked fine after I rolled my thumb down the boards. Second layer on the hull might be different, however. I’m planning on using pins. The second layer is thinner and might be easier to attach. I’ve read where some use cva to attach the end of the plank and pva for the rest. I think I’ll try that.
 
Clair G said:
Hi Frank,

So everything you asked happens to fall in the builders choice type of thing. Theres numerous products for each and most guys will find one they like and stick with it. Being the Polaris is your first ship I recommend trying trying different things/ways and use her not just to learn how to build a ship but also the supplies you like for yourself.

Varnish: I see many folks are using Tung Oil to get a great finish of the wood in a natural state. I also see guys using poly and minwax stains. Thats me so far but I will be trying Tung Oil on an upcoming build. My best advice : look around at furniture, find a finish you absolutely love then ask about its finish and try to replicate it. Any liquid can be thinned so yes you can airbrush all but the rub on type, however I see little reason to do so. Wood is pourus so the finish will seep in, unlike plastic.

Contact Cement: I would only use that for transferring paper frames to wood for precise cutting. It has it's uses and in translation sometimes contact cement is actually meant to be white glue. I myself use normal everyday Elmers wood glue. Many people love using the CA's or super glues, then others use Tite Bond ( unsure of the name, basically the same as pva but easier to fix goofs ).

Paints: Again, this is your choice. Any and all paints that can go on wood can go on your ship. Id say go with Acrylic simply because its water based to easy to clean your brushes and no fumes. If you are worried about brush strokes thin the paint just a little bit before painting. For a primer I prefer Kilz, yeah the same stuff you use for priming household stuff over stains and such.

Have fun with the Polaris, it's a very pretty ship :)
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Clair, is builder’s choice your answer for everything? I tried that on my first model airplane. It was supposed to be a B-52 but wound up looking like a Kitty Hawk with lots of spare parts left over. Something like that happened on my first carburetor rebuild too. I couldn’t figure out why it wouldn’t run. Float? We don’t need no stinking floats!
 
Teal2 said:
Hi K,
I will send more info on the flickering lights but need to know your knowledge level of electrical theory.
If you have no knowledge then I will give you a step by step method. If you are knowledgeable on electrical theory I will send the web sight for a supplier of the LEDs and resistors along with what I did to the model to accommodate the wiring, including the lanterns on deck which I have made myself and look pretty good.
Ted
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Could I trouble you to send the instructions to me as well? This looks very interesting in your photo.
danielsje said:
I use a quick dry high tack white hobby glue as my base glue. This is typically what you find in hobby and craft stores rather than hardware stores. In my area the brand is Arlene’s Quick Dry found in Joann’s or HobbyLobby. I also use CA thin and CA gel. The CA glues are great for tacking on curved pieces. Start at one end...tack on with CA gel...then work back along the curve tacking down with the CA. The white hobby glue is great for planking. I can place the plank...move it into position...and because the glue is quick dry high tack I can hold the plank in position with my fingers for 15 seconds and it is tacked in place. I rarely need clamps. CA is my go to for small parts, moldings, and curved planking.
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What is the working time between application and putting the plank in place with the Arlene's glue? I mean, if I start at the bow and hold for 15 seconds, assuming the plank is at least somewhat pre-bent, how long do I have to get the next 12 inches of plank in place? There is a fair bit of lateral curve also. I think that is why Amati's video suggests contact cement, but I do find it a bit daunting.
 
Teal2 said:
View attachment 178744View attachment 178744
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Rossc83 said:
Perhaps try using contact cement on some scrap wood and see how you go, practice a bit and you might find it is not really that hard
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Yes, that is what I am thinking as well. The instructions also promote their pinch bender, like a pair of pliers in a way. No way I will try them on planks curving around the bow as well as along the sheer. You have to cut so deep with them to bend much that the planks are too weak to bend like that withiu breaking or cracking. Anyway, that was my experience on the first layer .
 
Tangopapa said:
Yes, that is what I am thinking as well. The instructions also promote their pinch bender, like a pair of pliers in a way. No way I will try them on planks curving around the bow as well as along the sheer. You have to cut so deep with them to bend much that the planks are too weak to bend like that withiu breaking or cracking. Anyway, that was my experience on the first layer .
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Agree with that, I just soak the wood and use a steam iron (as in a clothing iron) to do the bending, works a treat.
 
Rossc83 said:
Agree with that, I just soak the wood and use a steam iron (as in a clothing iron) to do the bending, works a treat.
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I like that idea. It must dry the planks quite a bit? I dont want any shrinkage problems on the second layer. You steam iron on the model, or make up a form to hold them against?
 
Tangopapa said:
I like that idea. It must dry the planks quite a bit? I dont want any shrinkage problems on the second layer. You steam iron on the model, or make up a form to hold them against?
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I hold the plank and iron it on an old towel, bending as I go along the plank. Cant say I've noticed any shrinkage. I should add that with the second thin layer of planking, if the bend is not too severe, I don't bother with the iron, I just use the contact cement to hold the bend as I go along the plank, making sure to do it in such a way that only the part I am gluing is the only part of the plank that is touching the model if you see what I mean. Work my way from the bow to the stern.
 
Tangopapa said:
Could I trouble you to send the instructions to me as well? This looks very interesting in your photo.

What is the working time between application and putting the plank in place with the Arlene's glue? I mean, if I start at the bow and hold for 15 seconds, assuming the plank is at least somewhat pre-bent, how long do I have to get the next 12 inches of plank in place? There is a fair bit of lateral curve also. I think that is why Amati's video suggests contact cement, but I do find it a bit daunting.
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The Quick Dry hobby glue actually gives you several minutes to work a planking strip as long as the strip is pre-bent, ready to glue in place, and lays flat without excessive spring. The characteristic that I like is called quick tack. In other words I can apply the Quick Dry to a plank...place it and hold for 15 seconds and it will “tack” in place...then I can work down the length of a longer strip doing same...glue, place, and hold. If I am off I have time to simply lift the plank away, apply a bit more glue, and re-tack in place. There is a large time difference between tack and firm dry...a good five minutes I think where you can still lift a misplaced strip away and re-glue. The quick dry glue does not work as well with strips that still have a strong spring to them. In that case you would need to hold in place for several minutes (as in using clamps). When that is the case I use CA gel instead. Contact cement can be helpful on sharp curved planks that still have a lot of spring in them but you need to be precise in your initial placement. If you want planks to ”stick” quickly on curves but with a bit more forgiveness use CA gel. If the plank lays well without any spring then the quick dry high tack hobby glue will provide the most forgiveness.
 
Clair G said:
It sure is buddy, your model your way. You never know, ya might come up with something epic like a hippocamp riding a polar bear with a rocket launcher, making all arguments invalid :p
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With a coronet atop the hippocamp's head and watery flames issuing from its nostrils and blue nano pico LED lights emanating streams of blue light from its eye sockets and a streak of orange glow in the dark paint on the polar bear's back while he's holding a Panzerfaust in each forepaw to fend off T-34 tanks? I like it! (The Admiral says, "You guys are twisted.")
 
FrankJ said:
Thanks for the advice Clair...the videos OcCre provides for the Polaris show them using Contact Cement for the deck and the second layer of planks. I could see using Wood Glue in its place but am at a loss as to how to clamp the planks to the deck and the second layer of planks to the sides.
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The planking is a little on the learn as you go side. I am new to ship building but have 40 years of woodcraft knowledge. I read several books on ship building and watched some YouTube videos then came up with my own approach. You will see nails, clips, tape, pin etc being used and they all have their place. I would recommend checking out some other builds to see what look like it will work for you. Above all don’t force anything and I would stay away from instant glues till you get a little father along. You picked a nice ship to start with. Don’t forget to start a build log and post pictures. The experts on this forum will gladly help.
 
FrankJ said:
Thanks for the advice Clair...the videos OcCre provides for the Polaris show them using Contact Cement for the deck and the second layer of planks. I could see using Wood Glue in its place but am at a loss as to how to clamp the planks to the deck and the second layer of planks to the sides.
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Probably way to late for this post but I saw a video that used binder clips to hold planks. You take the clip from one and insert it into the other. Here’s a pic of using them. D2ADD038-F20F-4F5B-8184-EBFC8F1ADDE0.jpeg
 
FrankJ said:
I would eventually like to add lights to a ship but with my first, I'm not sure if I want to attempt that one...lol
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Lights are awesome, I found “pico” led (1mm) lights on Amazon, that come with built in resistors. I used a 3 AA battery pack with an on/off switch under the cabin. I have 5 white, 1 green & 1 red on my bluenose I’m building now. Here’s a pic with a view of the foredeck. Lights will be installed in the shrouds when ready. The wire is just recycled Ethernet (network) cable, use solid core wire not the stranded stuff. The lights are bright but small enough to fit in the fake lanterns, just drilled up into them with a 1 mm bit and filed some slots into the face for the light to be seen.2393601C-6B93-4304-8AC3-2CDC172F8CD4.jpeg
 
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Rossc83 said:
I have never used anything but contact cement for second layer of planking. With care this is the result. I also use a matt spray acrylic for the finish.View attachment 178743
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Do you recommend a particular contact cement? I find them quite thick so not sure of your method? Do you spread evenly on the two sides or dab in specific spots. I would be nervous about the “contact” as it tends to be quite strong so if you misaligned the plank how hard is it to make adjustments? Your pic is beautiful so I’m guessing you have VERY steady hands or use a type of contact cement that allows for adjustment on contact.
 
TechTrek said:
Do you recommend a particular contact cement? I find them quite thick so not sure of your method? Do you spread evenly on the two sides or dab in specific spots. I would be nervous about the “contact” as it tends to be quite strong so if you misaligned the plank how hard is it to make adjustments? Your pic is beautiful so I’m guessing you have VERY steady hands or use a type of contact cement that allows for adjustment on contact.
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Post #5 in this thread shows the glue I use.....may be an Australia only product. It is quite a thick glue so I apply it with a piece of scrap wood, making sure not to use too much. I spread a thin layer on both sides and leave to dry for 15 -20 minutes, then CAREFULLY attached the plank making sure of placement as I go from bow to stern. I suggest you practice on some scrap to get an idea of how it is done. Having built so many models, it has become quite easy for me to do.
 
TechTrek said:
Do you recommend a particular contact cement? I find them quite thick so not sure of your method? Do you spread evenly on the two sides or dab in specific spots. I would be nervous about the “contact” as it tends to be quite strong so if you misaligned the plank how hard is it to make adjustments? Your pic is beautiful so I’m guessing you have VERY steady hands or use a type of contact cement that allows for adjustment on contact.
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I ended up not using it, but in Canada LePages make a water based contact cement so you don't have to breathe the dangerous fumes. I got it at either Home Depot or Home Hardware.
 
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