"Flying Cloud " by Mamoli - kit bash

I reposted the picture that Rich previously posted. I hope that's ok. What a great picture. There is so much to see. Look at all of the detail on the deck houses. The crown molding detail is layered. Also, I noticed that the ship lapping only goes a little more than half way up. Even the hand rail at the front of the picture has great detail. I may be mistaken, but does the deck planking along the deck house run laterally from side to side?
Thanks for the great picture.

Bill



20241113_142943.jpg
 
I believe that boat in the picture is carvel built, that is the strakes are laid edge to edge. Lapstrakes overlap. I think this photo gives the illusion of lap strake where the seams between the strakes are clearly evident. Lapstrake was the better choice for boats left out of the water for any length of time because the overlap allowed for wood shrinkage without opening up the seams between the strakes. It is interesting that this boat is mounted right side up on cradles and not upside down. There is a spare spar and some (warped) lumber mounted on the skids on the main deck house. There may be a boat, upside down, hidden behind the boy. No skylights on the deck house in evidence. Remember, this is a photo of "Glory of the Seas".
 
Last edited:
Time to replace the horrid capstans.
I bought four 1:96 scale single action capstans from Drydock Models and Parts in order to make two the two double action capstans required on Flying Cloud. Most plans show two single action capstans P&S on the poop deck just aft of the portico house. These would have been useful when hauling the ship away from the pier as described in the book "Flying Cloud and the Woman who Guided Her". But no contemporary accounts (in particular Duncan McClean) mention them, nor are they pictured in Crothers' diagram (see above) so I'm not including them. I'll be stacking the two extra capstan bar drums from the two extra kits on top of the drums included in the assembled kits. But at about 7 bucks a kit it's not going to break the budget (as if I ever had one for this damn project in the first place! As you all have probably become painfully aware, these ship model projects are a hole in the workbench you throw money into!)
The little kits include no instructions, but not too hard to figure out. Pretty self-explanatory. For the most anally retentive amongst us the laser char will present a challenge. The pear wood is nice and hard, stands up to working and is a nice natural color for finishing. I used CA to assemble the core assembly and white glue for the drum which requires some wiggle time. Also, it's nice to have a rat tail file the same diameter as the core dowel to open up the hole in the capstan assembly to receive the dowel easily. Failing to open up this hole can incur disaster when trying to introduce the dowel into the assembly.
This covers the basic assembly. The modifications, final finish and placement on the ship to be cont'd.20241120_142046.jpg20241120_144209.jpg20241120_144947.jpg20241120_145922.jpg20241120_145822 (1).jpg20241120_151114.jpg20241120_150520 (1).jpg20241120_150954.jpg20241120_151312.jpg PS. I dry assembled the core capstan assembly, then glued it together using the two tined fork pictured to introduce the CA into the assembled joints. Capillary action sucks the glue into place cleanly. you can make one of these applicators by cutting off the end of a sewing needle eye and gluing the sharp end into a dowel for a handle.
 
Last edited:
I don't know the details. This is not unreasonable to assume. I am just following the information available that Flying Cloud had the two "double- action" capstans, one on the weather deck aft between the portico house and the main mast and the other, a patent capstan, on the forecastle deck with a universal gearing below to raise the anchors in lieu of the horizontal windlass and used up less space, leaving room in the focs'l to house one watch of the crew. The double action had two drums, one on top of the other atop the capstan. Somewhere in this log is a contemporary drawing of the patent double action anchor capstan in its' entirety, posted by Rich (clipperfan) Jones.
 
Capstans: My father’s Flying Cloud features beautiful brass capstans that he painted white. A. J. Fisher’s kit supplied fittings were remarkable! They are, however, probably inaccurate in that they are the all metal versions seen on early 20th Century steel hulled sailing ships.

In his book, Capstans and Windlasses, John Harland says that geared capstans were common on merchant ships in the1850’s. Looking at my father’s model, I had assumed that the capstan on the forecastle allowed twice as many men to be applied to the job, but from Harland this does not seem to be the case. He speaks of the need for a momentary “heavy heave” to break out the anchor. The upper and lower capstan heads allowed the crew to quickly unship the bars from one head and to quickly slip them into the other to take advantage of a lower gear ratio.

Ships boats: While building models it can be very difficult to grasp excactly how big the thing that we are building is in real life. A full sized 30ft Cutter is 96 CUBED in volume larger than one modeled at 1:96 scale! A 30 ft US Navy 1900 Standard Cutter weighed almost 3000 lbs. A 30ft launch over 5000lbs. The term “small boats” does not apply to these in the absolute sense of the word. Now imagine a crew standing atop a deckhouse attempting to turn one of these over, even with the help of some sort of lifting gear. The boats in the photo of Glory of the Seas stored upright with covers makes more sense to me than the upside down ones usually shown.

Food for thought.

Roger
 
Facts, contemporary sources, Mathematical logic and reasoning, all gratefully received from you, Roger, Rich and Rob (et. al.) have (and are having) a profound effect on the conformation of this model. It will, no doubt, look very little like its' predecessors which largely conform to the received wisdom and assumptions upon which they were based. I will continue to digest all the latest revelations with humility (and large doses of Pepcid) and make adjustments accordingly).;)

( Uuurp...)
Pete
 
Bill-R said:
I reposted the picture that Rich previously posted. I hope that's ok. What a great picture. There is so much to see. Look at all of the detail on the deck houses. The crown molding detail is layered. Also, I noticed that the ship lapping only goes a little more than half way up. Even the hand rail at the front of the picture has great detail. I may be mistaken, but does the deck planking along the deck house run laterally from side to side?
Thanks for the great picture.

Bill



View attachment 485307
Click to expand...
Bill, for the record, I have no objection to reposting any image I've already shared. Just remember, Mike (Michael Mjelde) gets credit for pics or documents he's generously shared with us. You're correct regarding the main house abaft the foremast. Planking in the aft is definitely lateral. From shadows, they might even overlap, like strakes. This area was modified to add 4 larger folding doors to accomodate a later addition of an auxiliary engine. We can't tell for sure if the entire back was redone or not. Meanwhile, a closer look at the newer cabin boy's house seems to show smoother joinery of wider vertical panels below, with cabinet style molding on top, keeping consistent with the same style seen on her forward cabin. Note too: boat skids on top of the forward cabin all have a gentle curve on their bottoms and don't project too far from ornate ceiling molding.
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Got with my IT help co. (My Computer Works, VERY good at pulling fat from the fire! I highly recommend!) Pictures of skylights as promised.View attachment 484983View attachment 484984View attachment 484985View attachment 484986 boats just set in place temporarily. Boat skids next.
Click to expand...
Peter,
I've never seen this illustration of Flying Cloud before, even though I have Crother's book. It would be interesting to know which sources he developed this deck arrangement from. You did a beautiful job replicating those skylights.
 
Roger Pellett said:
The boats in the photo of Glory of the Seas stored upright with covers makes more sense to me than the upside down ones usually shown
Click to expand...
Well in a similar image there is a boat upside down on the main cabin roof as shown in this image. I'm assuming, this type of storage...needed only simple boat skids, unlike the upright boats.
1732280949270.png

Rob
 
ClipperFan said:
It would be interesting to know which sources he developed this deck arrangement from.
Click to expand...
I'd like to know as well. I have never seen a deckhouse with large skylights atop it. Ample light is collected from the side windows. Skylights are needed when there is no other source of light, but by it. Like a cabin or dining cabin within the hull.

Rob
 
Thanks to Grant and Rich for the very nice comments!
The AJ fisher plans I have, uniquely among the several that I have, show boat skids mounted, one midway across the portico roof, and another spanning the width of the ship midway between the portico and main mast. The boats on the plan are upside down but could have been right aide up as shown in the "Glory of the Seas" photo. of course, installing this would mean tearing out the safety railing I've already installed on the portico roof. There is a boat upside down on the cabin roof next to the spar, lumber and coil of rope. I plan to go back and look at the paintings that Rich was so kind as to post here and look them over for any salient details.

The upside to all this back and forth and informed controversy is that the numbers of viewers on this log seem to multiply with the arguments. ;) Thumbs-Up
 
Last edited:
A cursory look back at the paintings seems to support the idea that the boats stored on the forward cabin were upside down. Some depict boats on davits P&S. this may, however, be an assumption on the part of the artist.
 
Back in the 1930’s there was heightened interest in ship modeling. There were a number of reasons for this. Popular Mechanics magazine offered serialized articles for building several models including Flying Cloud. Howard Chapelle was beginning his long career, with serialized articles in Yachting Magazine and publication of The History of American Sailing Ships, and finally E. Armitage McCann published his model building books including one on McKay’s Sovereign of the Seas.

A contributing factor was undoubtedly the depression. Ship models could be built by people with a workbench and basic hand tools. Hulls were carved from laminated pine blocks; each lamination (aka Lifts) sawed out to a waterline shape from the lines drawing. Kits only furnished these lifts. It was up to the builder to glue them together and shape the hull. No POB construction! Fittings could be bought little by little as needed. The market responded to this. A. J. Fisher offered the Cadillac of ship model kits. Beautiful brass fittings; some sold with an oxidized black finish, real boxwood ladders and blocks.

Unfortunately research wasn’t what it is today. As a Naval Architect, Chapelle was primarily interested in tracing the threads in American Ship and Boat building history. While he did this masterfully, he was most interested in hull forms, not fine details. Likewise subsequent offerings prior, to Crothers excellent books focused on the characteristics of the different ships and how they affected their, performance. Not always correctly! Chapelle’s The Search For Speed Under Sail published in 1968 or ‘69 IMHO does a good job of analyzing what is and isn’t known about the factors that make sailing ships fast. He does include anq appendix, that includes contemporary articles from Griffith’s’ Nautical Magazine, but subjects do not include Flying Cloud. And, of course, the internet has made available a huge amount of information not used by earlier researchers like Chapelle.

All of this is is a long winded way of saying than I wouldn’t rely too heavily on your A.J. Fisher plans. It would also be interesting to know when they were last updated.

Roger
 
Last edited:
The original Fisher Flying Cloud plans date to around 1940-42. As for updates, I have no idea. The current plans show several items, such as iron bollards and chocks that the original Flying Cloud did not use. The company has gone in and out of production, changing hands several times, radically changing and revising offerings and only recently has begun re-introducing pre-carved solid hull model kits. They still offer plans for models no longer in production. The brass fittings are long gone. They offer a variety of white metal fittings, but the company is only a shadow of what they once were. They still have a pretty nice catalog available online. It is literally a Mom and Pop business out of their home in MA. They most recently introduced a model of the Gertrude L. Thebaud, Bluenoses' great racing rival out of Gloucester. I believe one may reasonably expect high quality from their kits. All old-school solid hull offerings. good for us carvers. They are pleasant and forthcoming folks to talk with over the phone, the only way to reach them.

Pete
 
Roger Pellett said:
Back in the 1930’s there was heightened interest in ship modeling. There were a number of reasons for this. Popular Mechanics magazine offered serialized articles for building several models including Flying Cloud. Howard Chapelle was beginning his long career, with serialized articles in Yachting Magazine and publication of The History of American Sailing Ships, and finally E. Armitage McCann published his model building books including one on McKay’s Sovereign of the Seas.

A contributing factor was undoubtedly the depression. Ship models could be built by people with a workbench and basic hand tools. Hulls were carved from laminated pine blocks; each lamination (aka Lifts) sawed out to a waterline shape from the lines drawing. Kits only furnished these lifts. It was up to the builder to glue them together and shape the hull. No POB construction! Fittings could be bought little by little as needed. The market responded to this. A. J. Fisher offered the Cadillac of ship model kits. Beautiful brass fittings; some sold with an oxidized black finish, real boxwood ladders and blocks.

Unfortunately research wasn’t what it is today. As a Naval Architect, Chapelle was primarily interested in tracing the threads in American Ship and Boat building history. While he did this masterfully, he was most interested in hull forms, not fine details. Likewise subsequent offerings prior, to Crothers excellent books focused on the characteristics of the different ships and how they affected their, performance. Not always correctly! Chapelle’s The Search For Speed Under Sail published in 1968 or ‘69 IMHO does a good job of analyzing what is and isn’t known about the factors that make sailing ships fast. He does include anq appendix, that includes contemporary articles from Griffith’s’ Nautical Magazine, but subjects do not include Flying Cloud. And, of course, the internet has made available a huge amount of information not used by earlier researchers like Chapelle.

All of this is is a long winded way of saying than I wouldn’t rely too heavily on your A.J. Fisher plans. It would also be interesting to know when they were last updated.

Roger
Click to expand...
Roger,
Google books makes all of the old Popular Science and Popular Mechanics articles fully available as downloads. While some are beautifully illustrated, accuracy to the actual vessels sadly wasn't a big priority. I have the McCann book "How to Build a Ship Model of the Sovereign of the Seas" with fold out plans in a back pocket. In his figurehead options he offers a female mermaid or even a billet head, not even the original merman. The aft coach house is ridiculously tiny. Nothing like the large one described by McLean which he said occupied practically the entire poop deck with sufficient walkways and steerage room abaft. Of course there's no sign of navel hoods or cutwater. Still, plans such as they are, have been drawn very nicely. Apparently focus was on making nice looking mantlepiece models. Perhaps the Boston Daily Atlas articles weren't widely available back then.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top