Grants Xebec 1:60 (using Jabeque Cazador Occre1:60 kit) [COMPLETED BUILD]

[GrantTyler]

Hi Grant! Those cat davits look awesome. I can't believe how those "loose" parts which I saw during my visit, had all been brought together into a such a nice, cohesive unit. Great work, my friend!

Good evening Heinrich. Thank you my friend. I am a scrappy worker however by hook or by crook it does come together at the end in one way or another.

Grant, this is more expert workmanship which goes well with the rest of her.

Good evening Daniel. Thank you. I am improving little by little and getting some confidence to have a go at a POF model. Still make too many simple errors though. We shall see….

Beautifully fabricated my friend! Let the sirens sing!

Good evening Paul. Thank you. I let those pesky sirens take over a tad …..man they are a bad influence

Cheers Grant

 

[Jack Jäger]

Hi Grant,
I disagree that your catheads are not strong enough for their job, they would not be hauling the anchor from the sea bed, only holding it fast until it is secured and if ,as I am sure there would be, a rising timber head below and supporting the rail there would be no problem. A xebec isn't the Victory and her anchors dont weight two tons each. Looks great and only getting better.

Cheers JJ..

 

[RogerD]

The call of the sirens has worked really well for you Grant. Looks great to me.

 

[Nomad]

Good morning. Arlene, Ashtyn and I met the The Dutch ship master and his family last night. Unfortunately good old SA power cuts put an end to the braai at my place however we went to my favorite restaurant on the Melkbosstrand beachfront. A wonderful evening was had. Typical South Africans we forgot to take photos. Here is one of H and I by my Victory.

Great moment

 

[Ptèr]

Hi Grant,
You allready made so much better changes to this model. This one is also a great one to close the open cathead ends. Great work on those!
Sure, these catheads can't carry the weight of the anchors in real life, but this is how the kit has been designed and some things are hard to change.

Peter

 

[Frank48]

Hi Grant,
I disagree that your catheads are not strong enough for their job, they would not be hauling the anchor from the sea bed, only holding it fast until it is secured and if ,as I am sure there would be, a rising timber head below and supporting the rail there would be no problem. A xebec isn't the Victory and her anchors dont weight two tons each. Looks great and only getting better.

Cheers JJ..

Hi Jack, I respect YOUR opinion but , xebec anchors range from 1500 to 500 kg and it takes 5, Thanks for your attention.Frank

 

[Ptèr]

Hi Jack, I respect YOUR opinion but , xebec anchors range from 1500 to 500 kg and it takes 5, Thanks for your attention.Frank

I think we all have to respect and accept that this is a kit with flaws (by design of the kitmaker) like any other kit on the market. It's what the builder, in this case Grant does with this kit is out of this world! Always eager to learn new things and keep an open mind to suggestions of others is what makes this forum great.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us Frank.

Peter

 

[Frank48]

I think we all have to respect and accept that this is a kit with flaws (by design of the kitmaker) like any other kit on the market. It's what the builder, in this case Grant does with this kit is out of this world! Always eager to learn new things and keep an open mind to suggestions of others is what makes this forum great.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us Frank.

Peter

Hi Jack, first of all respect people and then the rest , if I dare to make some suggestions it is only for the purpose of information and nothing else.For the Kits we already discussed it.Frank

 

[GrantTyler]

Hi Grant,
I disagree that your catheads are not strong enough for their job, they would not be hauling the anchor from the sea bed, only holding it fast until it is secured and if ,as I am sure there would be, a rising timber head below and supporting the rail there would be no problem. A xebec isn't the Victory and her anchors dont weight two tons each. Looks great and only getting better.

Cheers JJ..

The call of the sirens has worked really well for you Grant. Looks great to me.

Hi Grant,
You allready made so much better changes to this model. This one is also a great one to close the open cathead ends. Great work on those!
Sure, these catheads can't carry the weight of the anchors in real life, but this is how the kit has been designed and some things are hard to change.

Peter

Good morning. Thank you Peter,Jack and Roger

Great moment

Good morning Mark. It was.

Cheers Grant

 

[Jack Jäger]

Hi Jack, first of all respect people and then the rest , if I dare to make some suggestions it is only for the purpose of information and nothing else.For the Kits we already discussed it.Frank

Hi Frank, It is always interesting to hear what you have to say and I imagine that you know a lot more about Xebecs than I do. So perhaps you can help me with how a 24gun Xebec weighing, I would guess around 250 tons, haul up a 1 1/2 ton anchor given that I do not see a capstan nor even a windlass? And why would such a small ship have such a large anchor anyway? I would have thought 8cwt to 10 cwt far more likely and also easier to handle. Looking at the anchors that come with the kit I would say the shank was about 55mm, that would scale up to about 3.3 metres that would equal an anchor of around 9cwt which seems right to me.
Grant I apologise, this is your site and I am asking someone else a question, but I really am curious.

 

[Uwek]

Interesting subject and discussion about the anchor and the lifting etc.
I will take a look at the monograph of the Le Requin by Jean Boudriot, which is representing a relatively similar xebec like this one.
Maybe Boudriot can bring some light into this problem

Planset review - LE REQUIN - Xebec - 1750" - scale 1:48 - by Jean Boudriot & Hubert Berti

Planset Review: LE REQUIN - Xebec - 1750" - scale 1:48 by Jean Boudriot & Hubert Berti translation into english by David H. Roberts booklet available in french, english or italian language available at ancre: https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/18-monographie-du-requin-chebec-1750-.html...

shipsofscale.com

@Lucius once built based on this planset a wonderful scratch model

Chebec Le Requin 1751 1:48

The history of the Chebec Le Requin In 1749 a proposal was made by the commander of the Toulon dockyard to build four chebecs as an effective protection against the Barbary pirates. The corsairs primarily relied on fast and agile chebecs, while the frigates and sloops-of-war of the French navy...

shipsofscale.com

and also @barba

xebec le requin

Dear colleagues Long time no see. I see that everything is under control here, and I'm so glad for that. I finally finished my ship. Because I had a build log here, that's why I think it should be presented on this forum. The ship is built of pear, ash, mahogany and beech. Everything is...

shipsofscale.com

Definitely there is no capstan or windlass, so they made it by hand....... but we will find some infos about the correct number and the weight of these anchors

 

[Bill Hime]

Grant, Your fussing over all the details is exactly what's making you an exceptional shipbuilder! Don't change a thing in your approach - you are better for it!

 

[Frank48]

Hi Frank, It is always interesting to hear what you have to say and I imagine that you know a lot more about Xebecs than I do. So perhaps you can help me with how a 24gun Xebec weighing, I would guess around 250 tons, haul up a 1 1/2 ton anchor given that I do not see a capstan nor even a windlass? And why would such a small ship have such a large anchor anyway? I would have thought 8cwt to 10 cwt far more likely and also easier to handle. Looking at the anchors that come with the kit I would say the shank was about 55mm, that would scale up to about 3.3 metres that would equal an anchor of around 9cwt which seems right to me.
Grant I apologise, this is your site and I am asking someone else a question, but I really am curious.

see mail

 

[Heinrich]

This is a very interesting discussion about the anchor weights. Often thorough research just leads to more unanswered questions - I think that is just the nature of what we are trying to achieve with what information is available. It is very seldom that these two parameters actually meet.

 

[Uwek]

Interesting subject and discussion about the anchor and the lifting etc.
I will take a look at the monograph of the Le Requin by Jean Boudriot, which is representing a relatively similar xebec like this one.
Maybe Boudriot can bring some light into this problem

Planset review - LE REQUIN - Xebec - 1750" - scale 1:48 - by Jean Boudriot & Hubert Berti

Planset Review: LE REQUIN - Xebec - 1750" - scale 1:48 by Jean Boudriot & Hubert Berti translation into english by David H. Roberts booklet available in french, english or italian language available at ancre: https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/18-monographie-du-requin-chebec-1750-.html...

shipsofscale.com

@Lucius once built based on this planset a wonderful scratch model

Chebec Le Requin 1751 1:48

The history of the Chebec Le Requin In 1749 a proposal was made by the commander of the Toulon dockyard to build four chebecs as an effective protection against the Barbary pirates. The corsairs primarily relied on fast and agile chebecs, while the frigates and sloops-of-war of the French navy...

shipsofscale.com

and also @barba

xebec le requin

Dear colleagues Long time no see. I see that everything is under control here, and I'm so glad for that. I finally finished my ship. Because I had a build log here, that's why I think it should be presented on this forum. The ship is built of pear, ash, mahogany and beech. Everything is...

shipsofscale.com

Definitely there is no capstan or windlass, so they made it by hand....... but we will find some infos about the correct number and the weight of these anchors

I was looking into the monograph of the Le Requin a similar french chebec and found this



I was checking the french pounds converted to kg
The heaviest anchor with 1.526 french pounds hat a weight of 747 kg , the other one with 1.425 pound a weight of 695 kg.

and also a photo of the contemporary model of the La Singe with a very similar arrangement



The 1:24 model is shown here in this web-page

Oeuvre : Précisions - Maquette de bateau, Singe, chébec de 20 canon, 1762 | Les collections du musée | Musée national de la Marine

Notice d'œuvre ''Maquette de bateau, Singe, chébec de 20 canon, 1762'' du musée ''Les collections du musée | Musée national de la Marine''

mnm.webmuseo.com

 

[GrantTyler]

Hi Frank, It is always interesting to hear what you have to say and I imagine that you know a lot more about Xebecs than I do. So perhaps you can help me with how a 24gun Xebec weighing, I would guess around 250 tons, haul up a 1 1/2 ton anchor given that I do not see a capstan nor even a windlass? And why would such a small ship have such a large anchor anyway? I would have thought 8cwt to 10 cwt far more likely and also easier to handle. Looking at the anchors that come with the kit I would say the shank was about 55mm, that would scale up to about 3.3 metres that would equal an anchor of around 9cwt which seems right to me.
Grant I apologise, this is your site and I am asking someone else a question, but I really am curious.

Good morning Jack. No need for apology. The more debate and discussion about these old ships the more I learn. Thanks Grant

 

[GrantTyler]

Grant, Your fussing over all the details is exactly what's making you an exceptional shipbuilder! Don't change a thing in your approach - you are better for it!

Thank you Bill. There is little historical information on these Xebecs, the Le Requin has some as Uwek posted, however the Cazador none. Some of my changes may not fit correctly as I am not clued up on these vessels, but I do attempt to make it somewhat realistic. Cheers Grant

 

[GrantTyler]

This is a very interesting discussion about the anchor weights. Often thorough research just leads to more unanswered questions - I think that is just the nature of what we are trying to achieve with what information is available. It is very seldom that these two parameters actually meet.

Good morning Heinrich. I love the debate and information sharing on these ships. It is something I have missed while building my “contemporary “ xebec. The Le Requin is the only ship with a detail monograph. (Well what I can find). No doubt my next ship will have that research and historical accuracy aspect to it…..what ever it may be. Cheers Grant

 

[GrantTyler]

I was looking into the monograph of the Le Requin a similar french chebec and found this

View attachment 387187 View attachment 387188

I was checking the french pounds converted to kg
The heaviest anchor with 1.526 french pounds hat a weight of 747 kg , the other one with 1.425 pound a weight of 695 kg.

and also a photo of the contemporary model of the La Singe with a very similar arrangement

View attachment 387189 View attachment 387190

The 1:24 model is shown here in this web-page

View attachment 387191

Oeuvre : Précisions - Maquette de bateau, Singe, chébec de 20 canon, 1762 | Les collections du musée | Musée national de la Marine

Notice d'œuvre ''Maquette de bateau, Singe, chébec de 20 canon, 1762'' du musée ''Les collections du musée | Musée national de la Marine''

mnm.webmuseo.com

Good morning Uwek. Thanks for this super interesting post. I have never heard of the La Singe Xebec before. She has an interesting sail configuration too with square sails on the main mast. A very similar hull design to the Cazador as made by Occre. Cheers Grant

 

[GrantTyler]

Good morning.
Cabin guns : I modified the kit so these would be more in the hull. Inside the hull i made a support beam and a 1mm hole drilled in it. I had to add an extension to the gun and a 1mm dowel (toothpick ) to fit into the beam. I also bored out the front of the barrel.

I added a in haul line for the gun ports and some dummy hinges.


A few more decorations printed on my 3D printer as well.
Quarter deck stairs and platform : Grants design again. Eish…
I added a railing to the platform. I can’t have my crew falling overboard . For these I used some decorative stanchions I had in my box of tricks and the railing is a 3mm walnut. I also neaten up the kit design by framing the platform with 0.5mm walnut. WIP….

Oh my lion decoration could be glued in place as well.
Stairs :
I made the kit stairs but these are just horrid…too bulky, thick etc . Redo.

Cannon :
I made sure I fitted the cannon before I made the platform for the stairs whew….
I will post the making and rigging of the cannons when I build the next one. On this cannon I did not rig the inner side - thankfully it was a mission getting it in under the quarter deck.
Not the best rigging on this one but it is not too visible. I am not going to use hooks on the cannons as with the 3mm blocks it all became overcrowded. Need to improve my neatness for the rest.
Brass fittings : I know….….… Looks cool though.
Cheers Grant