HIGH HOPES, WILD MEN AND THE DEVIL’S JAW - Willem Barentsz Kolderstok 1:50

[Heinrich]

Front wall left completely open. 2
Front wall with two door openings but no doors. 1
Front wall with two door openings and two doors. 2
Front wall with single door opening, but no door. 0
Front wall with single door opening and one door. 1

 

[Pathfinder65]

Ro Oh, if its not to late to vote — NO DOORS — WIDE OPEN — ( sorry just trying to catch up on all the logs)

 

[Heinrich]

Ro Oh, if its not to late to vote — NO DOORS — WIDE OPEN — ( sorry just trying to catch up on all the logs)

No problem, Jan - it's never too late. At the moment, I am mopping floors so the two WB's are sitting peacefully next to each other.

Front wall left completely open. 3
Front wall with two door openings but no doors. 1
Front wall with two door openings and two doors. 2
Front wall with single door opening, but no door. 0
Front wall with single door opening and one door. 1

 

[Pathfinder65]

No problem, Jan - it's never too late. At the moment, I am mopping floors so the two WB's are sitting peacefully next to each other.

Front wall left completely open. 3
Front wall with two door openings but no doors. 1
Front wall with two door openings and two doors. 2
Front wall with single door opening, but no door. 0
Front wall with single door opening and one door. 1

I see you have been very busy. That little ship is looking mighty fine. I’m temporarily sidetracked, our three boys are home at the same time. It’s been many years since that has happened. So there has been much family activity and not much time for anything else.

 

[Heinrich]

I see you have been very busy. That little ship is looking mighty fine. I’m temporarily sidetracked, our three boys are home at the same time. It’s been many years since that has happened. So there has been much family activity and not much time for anything else.

Thank you for the kind comments, Jan. That is absolutely no problem. as someone who does not have his family close by and who hasn't seen them for six years, I can appreciate that very much. Enjoy it, cherish it and hold it close to your heart.

 

[Frank48]

No problem, Jan - it's never too late. At the moment, I am mopping floors so the two WB's are sitting peacefully next to each other.

Front wall left completely open. 3
Front wall with two door openings but no doors. 1
Front wall with two door openings and two doors. 2
Front wall with single door opening, but no door. 0
Front wall with single door opening and one door. 1

Hi Heinrich, apart from the work of the model that speaks for itself but, the documentation that accompanies the model is priceless, Congratulations, sorry for what I think

 

[Steef66]

Front wall with two door openings and two doors.

I vote for this one, seems to be the most work and will keep you busy
Even more detail to look at

 

[Heinrich]

Hi Heinrich, apart from the work of the model that speaks for itself but, the documentation that accompanies the model is priceless, Congratulations, sorry for what I think

Caro Frank. Grazie mille per il vostro lavoro molto gentile e generoso. Sono molto fortunato ad avere una documentazione così eccellente e autorevole sulla nave. Ciò che Frank ha ovviamente omesso di dire, era che la maggior parte delle informazioni era dovuta ai suoi contributi molto generosi e altruisti.

Dear Frank. Thank you so much for your very kind and generous work. I am very fortunate to have such excellent and authoritative documentation on the ship. What Frank has of course omitted to say, was that the majority of the information was owing to his very generous and unselfish contributions.

 

[Heinrich]

I vote for this one, seems to be the most work and will keep you busy
Even more detail to look at

Thank you, Stephan. It is duly noted!

Front wall left completely open. 3
Front wall with two door openings but no doors. 1
Front wall with two door openings and two doors. 3
Front wall with single door opening, but no door. 0
Front wall with single door opening and one door. 1

 

[Frank48]

Caro Frank. Grazie mille per il vostro lavoro molto gentile e generoso. Sono molto fortunato ad avere una documentazione così eccellente e autorevole sulla nave. Ciò che Frank ha ovviamente omesso di dire, era che la maggior parte delle informazioni era dovuta ai suoi contributi molto generosi e altruisti.

Dear Frank. Thank you so much for your very kind and generous work. I am very fortunate to have such excellent and authoritative documentation on the ship. What Frank has of course omitted to say, was that the majority of the information was owing to his very generous and unselfish contributions.

Absolutely No, it's all thanks to Your research and applications, I don't hit the mark at all, let's give Caesar what belongs to Caesar

 

[pingu57]

Front wall left completely open.
Front wall with two door openings but no doors.
Front wall with two door openings and two doors.
Front wall with single door opening, but no door.

Which one would you guys go for?

If i am not to late my friend, i would opt for no front wall at all, for the reason as already mentioned, a lot more space, and because there where mo uinions back then, that demanded better sleep accomdations for the crew, it remains open

 

[Heinrich]

If i am not to late my friend, i would opt for no front wall at all, for the reason as already mentioned, a lot more space, and because there where mo uinions back then, that demanded better sleep accomdations for the crew, it remains open

You will never be late on my build log my friend - and you are right - there were certainly no unions then! Somewhere I actually have a description of how and where the men slept, and I am almost sure they did not even sleep under the canopies.

Front wall left completely open. 4
Front wall with two door openings but no doors. 1
Front wall with two door openings and two doors. 3
Front wall with single door opening, but no door. 0
Front wall with single door opening and one door. 1

 

[Heinrich]

SLEEPING ONBOARD THE WB

I found the very interesting interview that Gerald de Weerdt had with reporter Nykie Dijkstra who wrote the article. Please read it - it's an eye-opener, with even something for our VASA builders!

Often [reconstructed ships] are very neatly finished because shipbuilders do not like sloppiness and neither does the public. But wrecks from the seventeenth century give a different picture. Ships were made from a practical point of view, and if a beam was good, little else was done to finish. Even in a royal vessel such as the historic ship Vasa, there are all kinds of irregularities in the wood. De Weerdt: "There were slats and filling pieces everywhere. The world in the sixteenth century was much rougher than it is today. We also see this in the building of houses of that time. Beams were roughly trimmed. When branches were cut and the lines were wavy or bumpy, that was not a bad thing. As long as it was strong and efficient."

An advantage of building with these authentic methods is that good comparisons can be made with the sixteenth century. So, it became clear that such a ship could indeed be built in just three months. In this construction phase, a lot of work is being done on caulking. The seams are closed and when the wood later becomes damp again and expands, virtually no water comes through.

Construction takes longer than in the sixteenth century, which is why one sometimes has to be creative. For example, the hull planking is not yet secured everywhere with treenails because it would tear apart when the wood expands. By temporarily placing metal bolts in some places with some play, the planks are fastened without damaging the ship.

We get on board, and it strikes me that the deck follows the sway even though it evens out slightly in the back. De Weerdt: "If such a ship was chased, the rear guns were placed here. But if the deck were to follow the sway, it would be so steep here that the cannons would roll down in the event of a small mistake, with all the consequences that it entails."

I asked how the people slept on board. Hammocks were not yet known at the time. De Weerdt: "In principle, the skipper determined what the crew slept on. Often there were straw bags on the deck, but on long journeys it was a breeding ground for pests. Some skippers therefore let the crew sleep in a kind of wooden box on their own spare clothing."

Nykie Dijkstra

 

[RogerD]

From a practical seamanship point of view I can only see one valid option and that is “Front wall with two door openings and two doors”.
Even though those sixteenth century builds were rough why would they not consider the elements and at least make an effort to provide some comfort during adverse weather?

 

[Heinrich]

From a practical seamanship point of view I can only see one valid option and that is “Front wall with two door openings and two doors”.
Even though those sixteenth century builds were rough why would they not consider the elements and at least make an effort to provide some comfort during adverse weather?

Thank you very much for your input, Roger - it is sincerely appreciated. That is why I put it out there - obviously when making a decision, I cannot follow everyone's advice, but everyone's input is taken into account.

Front wall left completely open. 4
Front wall with two door openings but no doors. 1
Front wall with two door openings and two doors. 4
Front wall with single door opening, but no door. 0
Front wall with single door opening and one door. 1

 

[RDN1954]

I just felt like playing around tonight with a few pictures of how the front canopy blends in with the lines of the hull. Immediately after I have taken these pics, I started with the inner planking of the bulwarks between the two canopies. Unspectacular at this stage, but crucial to the overall finished look of the model.

View attachment 333341

View attachment 333342

View attachment 333343

View attachment 333344

View attachment 333345

There are still plenty of finishing (and difficult) touches to be done, but for now, I am extremely pleased with the overall look of the model. I believe the essence of De Veer's drawings have been captured.

Hello Heinrich,

What's your rationale behind the geometry of the side planking of the aft canopy?
I tried to do some research and I came up with a curved runout from the aft canopy side walls to the bulwarks. This is not only visible on the "Harlingen" replica, but historical pictures show a similar geometry.
Also, but I think you already addressed that topic, the aft deck railings seem to have a similar issue.


Your models' current status shows a vertical drop of the side walls to the bulwarks.

 

[Heinrich]

Hello Heinrich,

What's your rationale behind the geometry of the side planking of the aft canopy?
I tried to do some research and I came up with a curved runout from the aft canopy side walls to the bulwarks. This is not only visible on the "Harlingen" replica, but historical pictures show a similar geometry.
Also, but I think you already addressed that topic, the aft deck railings seem to have a similar issue.
View attachment 334183

Your models' current status shows a vertical drop of the side walls to the bulwarks.
View attachment 334184

Hello Johan.

You simply have not read far enough. See posts #4430 and #4437.


My rationale for this is two-fold. Firstly, to make sure that water is dissipated and doesn't accumulate in any spot and two, purely cosmetic.

 

[RDN1954]

Hello Johan.

You simply have not read far enough. See posts #4430 and #4437.

View attachment 334211
My rationale for this is two-fold. Firstly, to make sure that water is dissipated and doesn't accumulate in any spot and two, purely cosmetic.

Unfortunately this leaves my question unanswered; I've seen both posts and one of the pictures you showed demonstrates what I mean (and can also be seen on several illustrations from the past). Effectively it's exactly these two posts triggering me to pose the question.
Both transitions from the aft deck to the aft canopy and from the aft canopy to the bulwarks show a distinct radius in the picture below,taken from post #4437:


By the way, my question is not meant to be judgmental, I just try to understand the why behind your apparent deviation from some of the historical illustrations.

 

[Heinrich]

Unfortunately this leaves my question unanswered; I've seen both posts and one of the pictures you showed demonstrates what I mean (and can also be seen on several illustrations from the past). Effectively it's exactly these two posts triggering me to pose the question.
Both transitions from the aft deck to the aft canopy and from the aft canopy to the bulwarks show a distinct radius in the picture below,taken from post #4437:

View attachment 334212
By the way, my question is not meant to be judgmental, I just try to understand the why behind your apparent deviation from some of the historical illustrations.

Johan, I honestly do not see where the deviation lies. The drawing you refer to is of a jacht dated 1606. Willem Barentsz was a vlieboot circa approximately 1585 - 1596. It is also a drawing, not a plan - thus merely an artist's impression.


This is the Kolderstok plan. I think my curvatures are spot on as they were taken from the plans. In each case the exact curvature between Hoving, De Weerdt and Kolderstok's plans differ. I had to choose one and chose this one.

 

[Heinrich]

The more I look at the drawings of Gerrit van De Veer, the more I have to admire the details he has put into them. It's all there to find, if you study it closely enough. I am often guilty of thinking that there are sometimes discrepancies in his work (like now with the front wall of the center canopy). One drawing shows it completely open, the other one shows it closed with a single door opening.

But look at the picture below at the front canopies. I have looked at this picture so many times and have never noticed that the two ships are portrayed differently - the one shows an open access to the front canopy (green block), the other one is closed with a single door (red block). This makes perfect sense as we know that the two ships were different in many aspects. Now we can deduce (yes, I know it remains a deduction) that the ship which has the closed front canopy, probably also has the closed center canopy, whilst the other ship has both canopies open. This makes complete sense. The question though - and unfortunately it is one that will probably never be answered conclusively - is which is which?



Or is it impossible to tell? ....